Ask a Catholic

[Smalcald]

Well excommunication is something that the RCC does right.

It is simply church discipline. It does not mean that the member cannot attend mass, it does not mean that the member cannot take part in the outward symbol of the church, the priest is not standing up at the alter with a list of the excommunicated. It is a way of showing who is not in actuality a part of the RCC in Spirit and in truth at one point in time. What is needed is for that person to confess and repent, and they would be welcomed back.

I think we have this idea of some middle age shunning with removal of the person by force etc.

Sometimes they may be denied the Eucharist if they are a public gross sinner and it would be better for everybody if they did not partake, but this is not usually the case. Many people who are excommunicated are simply not right with the Church and simply need to go through reconciliation. It is actually a very healthy process for people it is done for the spiritual health of the person. For example if you take part in abortions you are automatically excommunicated even if nobody in the Church proper knows about it, it does not matter you are excommunicated in spirit(there is some Latin name for that). So what is needed is for this person to confess, repent and be reconciled to the Church. I think it is a healthy thing for Catholics.

Pax/Fiosh obviously correct me if I am wrong about this, I just have had some experience with the process among co-workers so sorry if I butted in!

[Pax]

Well excommunication is something that the RCC does right.

It is simply church discipline. It does not mean that the member cannot attend mass, it does not mean that the member cannot take part in the outward symbol of the church, the priest is not standing up at the alter with a list of the excommunicated. It is a way of showing who is not in actuality a part of the RCC in Spirit and in truth at one point in time. What is needed is for that person to confess and repent, and they would be welcomed back.

I think we have this idea of some middle age shunning with removal of the person by force etc.

Sometimes they may be denied the Eucharist if they are a public gross sinner and it would be better for everybody if they did not partake, but this is not usually the case. Many people who are excommunicated are simply not right with the Church and simply need to go through reconciliation. It is actually a very healthy process for people it is done for the spiritual health of the person. For example if you take part in abortions you are automatically excommunicated even if nobody in the Church proper knows about it, it does not matter you are excommunicated in spirit(there is some Latin name for that). So what is needed is for this person to confess, repent and be reconciled to the Church. I think it is a healthy thing for Catholics.

Pax/Fiosh obviously correct me if I am wrong about this, I just have had some experience with the process among co-workers so sorry if I butted in!

Smalcald you know more about the Catholic Church than most Catholics. You are correct, Excommunication doesn't mean that you can never attend mass again or you will be escorted out of the Church. You can still attend mass, however you cannot receive communion. The process of how you come back into the graces of the Church isn't something that I cannot definantly comment on. One would have to talk to their parish priest, and may even have to speak with the bishop. However, I do know that the process starts with reconciliation (confession). Then that person would have to cease their activity that caused the excommunication. If you are an abortion doctor, than you would obvioulsy have to stop killing babies. If you work at planned parenthood and counsel women on how to get abortions, then obvioulsy this would have to stop. The bishop then may have a specific penance for that person beyond this.

[Pax]

Hi Fiosh.

As a matter of interest if you were excommunicated from the RC church for any reason, would you consider yourself as still having any future left with God?

If I may, I will give you a quick answer to this. Fiosh feel free to add anything if you see fit. Excommuncation is a Church penalty which excludes a notorious sinner or someone grossly disobedient from the communion of the fiathful. It doesn't mean the person ceases to be a Christian. Its purpose is to warn the individual that he risks losing his soul unless he repents.

Another purpose is to bring the wayward back to the practice of the faith and to obedience. The bishop of my diocese had a list or organizations that if you were a Catholic and a member of any of these organizations you were excommunicated. The purpose wasn't to ban all these people to hell, but rather try to give them a firm warning and bring them back to the faith.

Sorry Pax. A simple question demands a simple answer and your post doesn't give one. We all know what excommunication is supposed to be for. My question was

"As a matter of interest if you were excommunicated from the RC church for any reason, would you consider yourself as still having any future left with God?"

Why Can't you just say yes or no?

As an afterthought after your quote above i.e

"It doesn't mean the person ceases to be a Christian"

Does that mean Martin Luther was still a Christian after his excommunication?

Of course you could still have a future with God. You must take into consideration that I am a Catholic, so my answer would be that one needs to come back into the graces of God through the Church. This would mean following the directions of the Bishop, if one was Catholic and had been excommunicated.

Yes, Martin Luther was still a Christian after he was excommunicated. However, he was not in line with Church teaching. One must remember that just because a person isn't a Catholic, they can still be Christians. My family are all Baptist and of course they are Christian. Most of the people on here are not Catholics, but are Christians as are Catholics.

[Pax]

INVENTIONS of the Church of Rome never cease! Rituals, relics, bones, beads; scores of R.C. churches with actual nails from the cross (three maximum, no?); an "in-between place" called "purgatory" for those not good enuf for heaven & not bad enuf for hell!; "Virgin Visions" in the skies; transubstantiation" magic; its Mary "queen of heaven;" a Roman Empire-like "Vatican City" set-up with a gilded "papacy"; "cardinals" (NOT those beautiful birds!); on into the Roman nite. Who says you can't have them all? Sadly, the timely answer bellows forth: BIBLICAL REALITY, that's what. It's time and long past time that the church of Rome got no-spin umbrellas for its close to Orwellian compatriots. Gotta go now as I'm on target to nurse a quad venti latte up at Starbucks. Life happens over coffee, does it not?

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

Art, Starbucks is addictive...

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. (Mark 16:16; John 3:5)

So basically those who have left behind the Catholic Church have left behind Salvation.

Do we enter through the Sacraments of the Church or the Doorway to the Universal Church which is Christ?

We don't believe something different than you do. We believe more.

What is the more? What has the Catholic Church added to Grace which in turn has brought us to Faith?

QUOTE(Matthitjah @ Oct 2 2006, 07:43 AM)

Grace to you,

Please explain how a Catholic arrives at Salvation.

Peace,

Dave

Only through the grace of God, just like anyone else.

Maybe you could expound upon how the Catholic obtains this Grace? Is this Grace only available to the Catholic, if so, why?

Explain the role of the Sacraments too if you do not mind.

Peace,

Dave

[EricH]

As a mod team we have been following this thread with great interest. We would like to make a request. The intent of this thread is for the OP to answer questions regarding Roman Catholicism. We would ask that in this spirit there would be no links to Catholic web sites, or copying and pasting from the Catholic catchecisms or doctrinal sources. Any answers should be in ones own words. In other words we want a personal understanding of the information.

Thanks

[Kansasdad]

Is everyone ready for the big one, explain how purgatory is scriptural?

Look at 1 Corinthians 3:14

[wordsower]

What if you wanted to attend another denomination? Say, you moved and there wasn't a RCC close by...could you go to the Baptist church and become a member there with no problem?

[Arthur Durnan]

If supporters of the church of Rome espousing the self-concocted bizarro, magical tenets that they do with quite reckless abandon could only fly, this place would be an airport! Ah, the sheer gee-whizardry of it all! Unmitigated drivel! The world needs it like a moose needs a hat-rack. Thank You, Lord Jesus, for Your settled Word of Truth (Jude 1) delivered unto the saints "once for all time" (Greek). Starbucks "addictive,"you thot? Naw, twice a month, if that, at best. And if they banned it, I'd never ask about it.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Pax]

What if you wanted to attend another denomination? Say, you moved and there wasn't a RCC close by...could you go to the Baptist church and become a member there with no problem?

The Baptist Church is not the Catholic Church, so a Catholic who decided to attend Baptist Church would essentially be leaving the faith. A Catholic should try to make every effort possible to fulfill their obligation of attending Mass once a week. Now if it is a situation where they can't get to a Catholic Church because of circumstances outside of their control, than that's another matter. They should then contact the diocese, (every square inch of land, including Islands in the ocean) fall under the control of a bishop and are part of a diocese. The diocese then would have an obligation to help that person get to a Catholic Church. Good question

A little side note: I attend the Baptist Church in my home town when I visit my parents. Of course I make sure to attend the Catholic Church as well to receive Holy Communion. There is nothing wrong with a Catholic visiting another church, as long as they fulfill their obligation to the Catholic Church.