Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[chrisb]

Ah, the old query that has confounded Christians for generations. I am at peace because I have a better answer than yes or no.

The answer is, it does not really matter.

I got saved when I was 5 years old, and really re-affirmed it in my early teenage years. I was on fire for God, I even went out and won souls for the Lord by knocking on doors in poor neighborhoods and witnessing. I had some very spiritual experiences, but I think I always reserved a part of my heart for myself, seperate from God.

At 18 I moved out into the world and became very much like it. I went wild. I spent years doing drugs, lying, stealing, being a sexual deviant, and practicing witchcraft. I completely turned my back on Christ. I have recently, in the last few months turned back to Christ. If I died while I was out in the world would I have gone to hell? I honestly do not know. I think the Bible indicates that those who turn against Him, have it worse off than those that never knew. This seems to make sense to me, but as I said it does not matter.

Being a Christian has become so much more to me than it ever was before. It is a transformation. I am a new creature! I desire to walk in the Lord's path. I have confidence that I will not turn my back on Him ever again. Those of us that have strayed so far appreciate His Holy Grace more I think. This walk with my King is different than it was before. I am not fearful of hell. I want to serve my Master. I know that He has given me eternal life, and I am not looking for a loophole to get around His law. I think this is the most important aspect of this discussion. Once you give your life to Him, you must do everything you can, with His help, to walk in His footsteps. Searching for loopholes to justify your sin is not doing that.

Our walk with our Creator should be a joyful journey. Surely we should be aware that we all fall short, but the knowledge of what He has done for us should make us joyful beyond measure. We have been chosen! We have nothing to fear! Our Lord and Savior is risen people!

[Rhonda Lou]

Ah, the old query that has confounded Christians for generations. I am at peace because I have a better answer than yes or no.

The answer is, it does not really matter.

I got saved when I was 5 years old, and really re-affirmed it in my early teenage years. I was on fire for God, I even went out and won souls for the Lord by knocking on doors in poor neighborhoods and witnessing. I had some very spiritual experiences, but I think I always reserved a part of my heart for myself, seperate from God.

At 18 I moved out into the world and became very much like it. I went wild. I spent years doing drugs, lying, stealing, being a sexual deviant, and practicing witchcraft. I completely turned my back on Christ. I have recently, in the last few months turned back to Christ. If I died while I was out in the world would I have gone to hell? I honestly do not know. I think the Bible indicates that those who turn against Him, have it worse off than those that never knew. This seems to make sense to me, but as I said it does not matter.

Being a Christian has become so much more to me than it ever was before. It is a transformation. I am a new creature! I desire to walk in the Lord's path. I have confidence that I will not turn my back on Him ever again. Those of us that have strayed so far appreciate His Holy Grace more I think. This walk with my King is different than it was before. I am not fearful of hell. I want to serve my Master. I know that He has given me eternal life, and I am not looking for a loophole to get around His law. I think this is the most important aspect of this discussion. Once you give your life to Him, you must do everything you can, with His help, to walk in His footsteps. Searching for loopholes to justify your sin is not doing that.

Our walk with our Creator should be a joyful journey. Surely we should be aware that we all fall short, but the knowledge of what He has done for us should make us joyful beyond measure. We have been chosen! We have nothing to fear! Our Lord and Savior is risen people!

AMEN AND AMEN!! Praise the Lord!! You are so right!!

[TomPJr]

When we are born again all of our old sins are washed away, but there are still sins in my life that I don't know that are sin and some will take me awhile to overcome. This is the work spoken of and after we are done there remains a rest for us in heaven.

So Christ's death only paid the penalty for the sins of which you were aware or that you have overcome. The rest are yours to work out or repent of and if you don't, you lose your salvation?

No!!!! Think about this. When we came into Christianity not everybody knew all of the scriptures. Some barely knew what a sin was. When we were born again ALL of our sins were washed away whether we knew they were sins or not. Now, it is up to us to learn what sin is so that we do not go on committing the same sins that we were forgiven for.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is a labour that we are commanded to do. I have been around Christianity a long time and I am always learning more of the law and myself. Each time I learn that there is something in my life that is a sin I repent of it and the working out part do sometimes take time, but if I really want to overcome it Christ and the Holy Spirit are there to help me.

Hebrews 4:15-16 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

We are tempted everyday in our lives with sin, but it is up to us to resist that temptation. If we give into the temptations we could die in our sins.

James 1:12-15 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The work and labor we do not to give into sin and to change our minds to not desire sin is a labor and a work.

2 Corinthians 5:9-10 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

So, basically, if we give into our sins not wanting to repent of them we will die in our sins.

So if all of our sins were washed away, how does one loose their salvation?

all of our past sins are washed away... you must repent and ask forgiveness for your future ones when they happen.

The point is that you can't just say I accept Christ and all is forgiven and then live a worldly lifestyle....you must live Christlike...Christianly.

Think about it this way.... If I get dirty and then take a shower, I am clean. No matter how dirty I was, I am clean now. It's up to me to stay clean, but chances are I will make a mistake and get dirty again. Then I need to take a shower again and become clean. Jesus is always their with cleansing soap (so to speak) for those who will to be clean. No matter haw dirty we get. I believe that we must be very carefull though, not to play willfully in the dirt, lest our hearts become too stained (or too hardened) to be cleaned.

The Holy Spirit speakes to us through our conscience, but if we continually play in the dirt (sin) our ears will become so dirty that we will not hear his voice pleading with us to go to Jesus for cleansing. We no longer want to look into the mirror of Gods law to see how dirty we are.

We are then left unforgiven, not because Jesus wouldn't forgive, but rather because we wouldn't ask.

Remember that the criteria for forgiveness is confessing to God, asking forgiveness, and repenting.

If our hearts are hardened to much to hear Gods voice calling us to repentence, then we will never ask for forgiveness.

[Ovedya]

If our hearts are hardened to much to hear Gods voice calling us to repentence, then we will never ask for forgiveness.

That begs the question, "If God condemns us on the basis of our not having the ability or will to ask for forgiveness before we die, what happens when a Chrsitian dies suddenly and unexpectedly, without the opportunity to ask for forgiveness of his "dirt" (sins)?

Eternal punishment for a single sin without opportunity for repentance seems a bit extreme, don't you think?

[Rhonda Lou]

Christianity is more than just faith and grace. It is also about living Christianity the way God wanted us to or we will lose the grace. Grace saved us from our past sins and has opened a door to receive forgiveness for our future sins, but will lose the grace if we don't repent of sins and decide to keep in our lives.

A good question would be is do people really know what sin is? I have met many, many people who claim to be Christians but are drunkards, fornicators, liars, use foul language, are dishonest, etc. and justify it by saying that God knows their hearts and are forgiven anyways by grace. They actually think they don't need to repent because God doesn't see their sins because the blood of Christ covers their sins so they live their lives without repentance of these sins. A lot of these people believe in OSAS and can't lose the grace.

[kari21]

IMHO, I believe that if God promised we have eternal life with Him at conversion, and then He "takes it back," then it wasn't eternal at all, and makes God a liar.

[larryt]

Ah, the old query that has confounded Christians for generations. I am at peace because I have a better answer than yes or no.

The answer is, it does not really matter.

I got saved when I was 5 years old, and really re-affirmed it in my early teenage years. I was on fire for God, I even went out and won souls for the Lord by knocking on doors in poor neighborhoods and witnessing. I had some very spiritual experiences, but I think I always reserved a part of my heart for myself, seperate from God.

At 18 I moved out into the world and became very much like it. I went wild. I spent years doing drugs, lying, stealing, being a sexual deviant, and practicing witchcraft. I completely turned my back on Christ. I have recently, in the last few months turned back to Christ. If I died while I was out in the world would I have gone to hell? I honestly do not know. I think the Bible indicates that those who turn against Him, have it worse off than those that never knew. This seems to make sense to me, but as I said it does not matter.

Being a Christian has become so much more to me than it ever was before. It is a transformation. I am a new creature! I desire to walk in the Lord's path. I have confidence that I will not turn my back on Him ever again. Those of us that have strayed so far appreciate His Holy Grace more I think. This walk with my King is different than it was before. I am not fearful of hell. I want to serve my Master. I know that He has given me eternal life, and I am not looking for a loophole to get around His law. I think this is the most important aspect of this discussion. Once you give your life to Him, you must do everything you can, with His help, to walk in His footsteps. Searching for loopholes to justify your sin is not doing that.

Our walk with our Creator should be a joyful journey. Surely we should be aware that we all fall short, but the knowledge of what He has done for us should make us joyful beyond measure. We have been chosen! We have nothing to fear! Our Lord and Savior is risen people!

Hi chrisb,

Good to hear you are serving the Lord now.

One thing that many who do not believe OSAS have a problem with is how to get your salvation back once you loose it. Heb. 6:4-6 seem to imply that if it were possible to loose salvation then you could not get it back.

Heb 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

LT

[BrotherJohnf]

It makes me sad

It makes me so sad to see all the confusion in this area. But even more so to think of all the little dear ones whose minds are barely clear from the confusion of satanic bondage. Listen little ones, if there is anything you could do to lose your salvation, then I wouldn't be saved today. Can I show you from Scripture? Of course I can. And I can reason with you from Scripture as well. Both of which I will do, but let me say something first.

Many years ago I would struggle with this question often. A friend would ask are you a Calvinist or an Armenian? I'd say I don't know, I just know that I'm saved and I believe the Bible. Of course I was begging the question. But today I know that I'm neither, for I will not allow a false dichotomy to split the Word of God. But that is another topic for another time. So for the longest time I made a truce in my mind that I saw good things on both sides. The blessed assurance on the hand of the eternal security view, but the important vigilance of the lose your salvation view.

I guess I was forced to conclude that I just didn't know. That was a good thing and a bad thing. Let me tell you about the bad first. I was very foolish and made a vow to the Lord to never do a certain sin again. But I fell into sin and broke the vow. Friends, never do this! And if you do, please only make a vow that you will complete some task or mission, not a vow like mine where it goes on forever(oh how foolish I was).

Anyway, as a result of breaking that vow I came under intense demonic oppression. So intense that I did not sleep for days on end because as soon as I closed my eyes they would be on me. When I read the Bible I got no comfort at all. The only verses I could relate to were the ones that condemned me. Many of those verses have been quoted here, Hebrew 6 etc. I do not know how long it lasted but the agony of the doubts that I had lost my salvation were incredible. They were so powerful that I could literally feel them in my head. The only way I escaped was by God mercifully showing me eternal security.

I still did not understand why there were verses which seemed to teach differently, but at least I knew I was saved and COULD NEVER BE LOST NO MATTER WHAT I EVER DID FROM THAT POINT ON. Trust me, after a crisis like that you are very grateful for that assurance. Sometimes(very rarely now) those doubts try to get back into my head(I believe they are demonic). But anymore I simply rebuke them away "begone doubt in the name of Jesus", and they flee away.

Now I said that not being sure was a good thing as well. It was good in this sense. In my opinion, the greatest stumbling block for growth in Bible knowledge is pride. How can God teach you something which you already claim to know? If you don't know just admit it and say "Lord, I don't know the answer to this question, will you answer it for me or lead me to someone who can?" And you know what? HE WILL, praise Jesus.

Now to the question at hand. I asked many times why are there two seemingly contradictory messages in Scripture which cannot be reconciled. Notice I said seemingly because that is exactly what they are. This is a very deep study, and many won't accept it. But if you really want to know the answer to this question you must study dispensationalism. You will never really come to understand the difference between law and grace until you come to understand the difference between the Church and Israel.

I cannot go deeply into it here for I have gone on way to long already. But if you can find it I recommend "Why So Many Churches?" by Noah Hutchings. Or you can drop on over to a dispensationalist forum. There are some real good teachers over there too. Suffice it to say, when you come to understand the difference between the Church and Israel, many of your problem verses will melt away into beautiful harmony.

I will leave you with this. Start by looking at the books of the Bible which contain the hard verses and think about WHO they were written to. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. But not all letters are written to YOU. Examine them and you'll see:

1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia

1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Finally, do not fret, you little ones who are coming out of Satan's kingdom. There is nothing you or anyone else can do to separate you from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. THERE IS NO SIN YOU HAVE COMMITTED OR WILL COMMIT WHICH WILL CAUSE YOU TO LOSE YOUR SALVATION! Rest in that assurance, for it is true:

8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

King James Version of the Bible

Book of Romans

Chapter 8

[eric]

I BET HALF THE PEOPLE WHO RESPOND TO THIS QUESTION DONT REALLY KNOW THE ANSWER DO THEY?

In a word..........NO.

[Thaddaeus]

Kari,

IMHO, I believe that if God promised we have eternal life with Him at conversion, and then He "takes it back," then it wasn't eternal at all, and makes God a liar.

Several weeks ago I posted a question that was aimed at such a statement as yours above. I must assume from what you are saying that upon faith, one recieves eternal life. Eternal life is immortality, a physical existance. Am I correct in making this assumption?