Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[Redefine_Me]

This is a very interesting debate. Thanks for all of your views. I'm enjoying following it.

[Vickilynn]

Greg Davies,

So, I'm curious as to what scriptures you are using to support the lose your salvation idea.

Because you speak from a past tense use of "saved" you assume that it is final. However, that is not what the Bible teaches relative to your walk, your union with God, being IN Christ. When we believe, repent, are baptised, we recieve the Holy Spirit, which is also known as entering the Kingdom of God. We may possess that salvation, but we are now on a journey to actually take full inherited possession at the end. I Pet 1:4-5 clarifies this very well. Our inheritance is being held for us, and we are being held by the power of God THROUGH OUR FAITH.

We are justified by faith, which is simply entrance into the Kingdom. We are saved through faith. We must keep the faith. We must endure to the end. It is all about faith. Salvation is faith, abiding faith. Thus the entire NT preaches ad nausem about the Christian to make sure they remain IN Christ which also means to remain faithful. We cannot be saved, cannot inherit the promise at the end, IF WE BECOME UNFAITHFUL.

Much earlier in this post I posted several texts, about 10 or 12 that explicity showed that faith must be kept. Losing faith is losing salvation. Why would that not be logical, when we are saved through faith. It does not ever say we are saved through unfaithfulness. There are possibly in the range of 200 specific texts in the NT that clearly portray that precept. I can post more for you if you desire.

Faith is a free motion of man. He can accept Christ, he can reject Him. He can do this back and forth many times in his life possibly. God does not compel us to love Him. He works in us that we believe. But He does not actually believe for us. He does not impose His will upon us. He gives us His revelation, outlining to man, what He expects of us, and then we better get to it. If we don't, He has also given us the alternative.

Here are some more texts that speak to the faith issue, we are saved through faith. I have added some commentary.

1 Timothy 3:6 - not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Explanation: The word for novice also means newly planted, a new convert, neophyte (one who has recently become a Christian). So what this is saying is that a new convert can become puffed up with pride if they are put into the position of an elder at a church; then that pride makes them fall. The word for fall means to fall into, to fall among robbers, fall into one's power. So this is action of a real Christian who has been out of the devil's power, but then falls back into it because of puffed up pride. What it is that there is a possibility of falling into is the same condemnation (judgement, damnation) as the devil. (this may be analogous to the briars of the parable of the sower. A new christian who is not mature enough to handle this kind of responsibility and he lets it inflate his ego and puts himself above God and others, thus falling from grace)

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. Explanation: Paul sounds like he's really trying to get the point accross by stating "the Spirit expressly says." With this kind of language, we better pay attention. The word for giving heed also means to turn the mind to, give attention to, to apply one's self to, to devote thought and effort to. So don't give much attention to people who tell you that you can not lose your salvation. The word for depart also means to desert, to fall away, become faithless, to withdraw one's self from. Either way that you look at it they stop having faith.

1 Timothy 5:12 - Having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith. Explanation: The word for cast off also means despise, reject, bring to nothing, to do away with, to set aside, disregard, nullify, make void. Clearly, their faith is no good anymore, and they will be condemned at the last day. These people become spiritually dead.

I Timothy 6:12 - "Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses" Explanation: Does anyone see any security about a single moment in time when one might have believed. We need to fight, lay hold, and profess before many witnesses. That is a lot to do in a few seconds of belief.

If you need more I have plenty more.

Shalom Thaddeus,

What an excellent post.

[Thaddaeus]

ttuna,

John 3:16 says "Eternal life"..................not "temporary life" based on what we do. It is what "Christ" did for us!

Eternal life is permanent, but it is permanent for every soul that every lived. However, eternal life with Christ is a whole different matter.

In John 3:16 is the word "believe" or "believed". the correct understanding is the meaning of to believe, but OSAS makes the meaning believed. Therein lies the misunderstanding. Check your Greek on this word and you will then know.

[Thaddaeus]

Greg Davies,

I will give you II Cor. 1:10 for now. The word "deliver" here is also translated "save".

This is one of those texts that are irrelevant to the OSAS position. It deals with Christ's work on the Cross which is not directly related to our walk with Him. Chrsit saved all of mankind from death, which is the fall. The condemnation of Adam.

[exrockstar]

Greg Davies,

So, I'm curious as to what scriptures you are using to support the lose your salvation idea.

Because you speak from a past tense use of "saved" you assume that it is final. However, that is not what the Bible teaches relative to your walk, your union with God, being IN Christ. When we believe, repent, are baptised, we recieve the Holy Spirit, which is also known as entering the Kingdom of God. We may possess that salvation, but we are now on a journey to actually take full inherited possession at the end. I Pet 1:4-5 clarifies this very well. Our inheritance is being held for us, and we are being held by the power of God THROUGH OUR FAITH.

We are justified by faith, which is simply entrance into the Kingdom. We are saved through faith. We must keep the faith. We must endure to the end. It is all about faith. Salvation is faith, abiding faith. Thus the entire NT preaches ad nausem about the Christian to make sure they remain IN Christ which also means to remain faithful. We cannot be saved, cannot inherit the promise at the end, IF WE BECOME UNFAITHFUL.

all this here is good then the rest you lose focus.

Yes, salvation ENTERS you into the kingdom.

Backsliding does not give you inheritance.

Do you tihnk everyone entering will inherit the kingdom? you may want to watch what you spread.

if you are wrong then you are totally spreading a doctrine not grace based.

1 Cor 3:15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

you keep mixing entering and inheriting. thats your downfall.

you are walking the right path to inherit rewards. youre already going to enter.

if you start backsliding you will lose rewards however you will still enter.

think of all those Christians that love and profess Christs name and are the nicest peple ever.

then think about how they dont know a lick of scripture.

How can they rule if they dont know scripture. They rule off niceness and good deeds?

problem with those that dont like OSAS is that they look at the next person and not themselves.

[Massorite]

O.K. I see where you are coming from. It's the all or nothing salvation. Kind of like the game show where you accumilate prizes until you give a wrong answer and then you lose everything. I don't have time right now to respond the way I'd like. Look for a more complete response next week . I will give you II Cor. 1:10 for now. The word "deliver" here is also translated "save". God Bless, Greg.

Greg Davies,

So, I'm curious as to what scriptures you are using to support the lose your salvation idea.

Because you speak from a past tense use of "saved" you assume that it is final. However, that is not what the Bible teaches relative to your walk, your union with God, being IN Christ. When we believe, repent, are baptised, we receive the Holy Spirit, which is also known as entering the Kingdom of God. We may possess that salvation, but we are now on a journey to actually take full inherited possession at the end. I Pet 1:4-5 clarifies this very well. Our inheritance is being held for us, and we are being held by the power of God THROUGH OUR FAITH.

We are justified by faith, which is simply entrance into the Kingdom. We are saved through faith. We must keep the faith. We must endure to the end. It is all about faith. Salvation is faith, abiding faith. Thus the entire NT preaches ad nauseum about the Christian to make sure they remain IN Christ which also means to remain faithful. We cannot be saved, cannot inherit the promise at the end, IF WE BECOME UNFAITHFUL.

Much earlier in this post I posted several texts, about 10 or 12 that explicity showed that faith must be kept. Losing faith is losing salvation. Why would that not be logical, when we are saved through faith. It does not ever say we are saved through unfaithfulness. There are possibly in the range of 200 specific texts in the NT that clearly portray that precept. I can post more for you if you desire.

Faith is a free motion of man. He can accept Christ, he can reject Him. He can do this back and forth many times in his life possibly. God does not compel us to love Him. He works in us that we believe. But He does not actually believe for us. He does not impose His will upon us. He gives us His revelation, outlining to man, what He expects of us, and then we better get to it. If we don't, He has also given us the alternative.

Here are some more texts that speak to the faith issue, we are saved through faith. I have added some commentary.

1 Timothy 3:6 - not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Explanation: The word for novice also means newly planted, a new convert, neophyte (one who has recently become a Christian). So what this is saying is that a new convert can become puffed up with pride if they are put into the position of an elder at a church; then that pride makes them fall. The word for fall means to fall into, to fall among robbers, fall into one's power. So this is action of a real Christian who has been out of the devil's power, but then falls back into it because of puffed up pride. What it is that there is a possibility of falling into is the same condemnation (judgement, damnation) as the devil. (this may be analogous to the briars of the parable of the sower. A new christian who is not mature enough to handle this kind of responsibility and he lets it inflate his ego and puts himself above God and others, thus falling from grace)

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. Explanation: Paul sounds like he's really trying to get the point accross by stating "the Spirit expressly says." With this kind of language, we better pay attention. The word for giving heed also means to turn the mind to, give attention to, to apply one's self to, to devote thought and effort to. So don't give much attention to people who tell you that you can not lose your salvation. The word for depart also means to desert, to fall away, become faithless, to withdraw one's self from. Either way that you look at it they stop having faith.

1 Timothy 5:12 - Having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith. Explanation: The word for cast off also means despise, reject, bring to nothing, to do away with, to set aside, disregard, nullify, make void. Clearly, their faith is no good anymore, and they will be condemned at the last day. These people become spiritually dead.

I Timothy 6:12 - "Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses" Explanation: Does anyone see any security about a single moment in time when one might have believed. We need to fight, lay hold, and profess before many witnesses. That is a lot to do in a few seconds of belief.

If you need more I have plenty more.

You got it right Thaddaeus. The reason so many of the unsaved think the church is full of hypocrite's is because there are so many who go to church on Sunday and get drunk on Monday or go to church on Sunday and rip off each other on Monday or commit any number of sins with a confidence that they will still receive/ inherit the Kingdom of Heaven at the end of their life no matter how much they sin after they have excepted Christ. And the reason for all of these hypocrite's is the "Once saved always saved" doctrinal teaching which is another lie from the pits of hell.

[Ovedya]

And the reason for all of these hypocrite's is the "Once saved always saved" doctrinal teaching which is another lie from the pits of hell.

Yeah.....But we wouldn't want to make generalizations regarding the pandemic of saints angaging in intenional sin and leaving the church.......would we?

I think you cheapen a serious problem in the church by blaming it on OSAS theology. In doing so you also use OSNAS theology as a means of creating a false crisis in the church. After all, if no one is ever truly saved at any one given time or place (OSNAS theology certainly places persons in a constant state of questioning and being unsure of their eternal standing before God) then it becomes easier for religion and man to control them.

We should know, the largest and oldest religion in the world has been doing it to its people for centuries.

[Massorite]

O.K. I see where you are coming from. It's the all or nothing salvation. Kind of like the game show where you accumilate prizes until you give a wrong answer and then you lose everything. I don't have time right now to respond the way I'd like. Look for a more complete response next week . I will give you II Cor. 1:10 for now. The word "deliver" here is also translated "save". God Bless, Greg.

Greg Davies,

So, I'm curious as to what scriptures you are using to support the lose your salvation idea.

Because you speak from a past tense use of "saved" you assume that it is final. However, that is not what the Bible teaches relative to your walk, your union with God, being IN Christ. When we believe, repent, are baptised, we receive the Holy Spirit, which is also known as entering the Kingdom of God. We may possess that salvation, but we are now on a journey to actually take full inherited possession at the end. I Pet 1:4-5 clarifies this very well. Our inheritance is being held for us, and we are being held by the power of God THROUGH OUR FAITH.

We are justified by faith, which is simply entrance into the Kingdom. We are saved through faith. We must keep the faith. We must endure to the end. It is all about faith. Salvation is faith, abiding faith. Thus the entire NT preaches ad nauseum about the Christian to make sure they remain IN Christ which also means to remain faithful. We cannot be saved, cannot inherit the promise at the end, IF WE BECOME UNFAITHFUL.

Much earlier in this post I posted several texts, about 10 or 12 that explicity showed that faith must be kept. Losing faith is losing salvation. Why would that not be logical, when we are saved through faith. It does not ever say we are saved through unfaithfulness. There are possibly in the range of 200 specific texts in the NT that clearly portray that precept. I can post more for you if you desire.

Faith is a free motion of man. He can accept Christ, he can reject Him. He can do this back and forth many times in his life possibly. God does not compel us to love Him. He works in us that we believe. But He does not actually believe for us. He does not impose His will upon us. He gives us His revelation, outlining to man, what He expects of us, and then we better get to it. If we don't, He has also given us the alternative.

Here are some more texts that speak to the faith issue, we are saved through faith. I have added some commentary.

1 Timothy 3:6 - not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Explanation: The word for novice also means newly planted, a new convert, neophyte (one who has recently become a Christian). So what this is saying is that a new convert can become puffed up with pride if they are put into the position of an elder at a church; then that pride makes them fall. The word for fall means to fall into, to fall among robbers, fall into one's power. So this is action of a real Christian who has been out of the devil's power, but then falls back into it because of puffed up pride. What it is that there is a possibility of falling into is the same condemnation (judgement, damnation) as the devil. (this may be analogous to the briars of the parable of the sower. A new christian who is not mature enough to handle this kind of responsibility and he lets it inflate his ego and puts himself above God and others, thus falling from grace)

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. Explanation: Paul sounds like he's really trying to get the point accross by stating "the Spirit expressly says." With this kind of language, we better pay attention. The word for giving heed also means to turn the mind to, give attention to, to apply one's self to, to devote thought and effort to. So don't give much attention to people who tell you that you can not lose your salvation. The word for depart also means to desert, to fall away, become faithless, to withdraw one's self from. Either way that you look at it they stop having faith.

1 Timothy 5:12 - Having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith. Explanation: The word for cast off also means despise, reject, bring to nothing, to do away with, to set aside, disregard, nullify, make void. Clearly, their faith is no good anymore, and they will be condemned at the last day. These people become spiritually dead.

I Timothy 6:12 - "Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses" Explanation: Does anyone see any security about a single moment in time when one might have believed. We need to fight, lay hold, and profess before many witnesses. That is a lot to do in a few seconds of belief.

If you need more I have plenty more.

You got it right Thaddaeus. The reason so many of the unsaved think the church is full of hypocrite's is because there are so many who go to church on Sunday and get drunk on Monday or go to church on Sunday and rip off each other on Monday or commit any number of sins with a confidence that they will still receive/ inherit the Kingdom of Heaven at the end of their life no matter how much they sin after they have excepted Christ. And the reason for all of these hypocrite's is the "Once saved always saved" doctrinal teaching which is another lie from the pits of hell.

[/quote

Mr. Davies here is a response before your next weeks response since you don't have any time left in your week to speak farther about the word of God this week.

As you should know from scripture. Jesus uses a temperature gauge to determine if a persons heart is for Him or against Him. Unless of course you don't do much study in the word of God.

Revelation 3:15-16 " I know your works that you are neither cold nor hot: I would rather you be Cold or Hot. So then because you are Lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of My mouth".

Matthew 24:12 "And because iniquity (lawlessness of God's laws) shall abound, the love (for Christ) of many shall wax (grow) cold".

So now we know by what the word of God says that if you are cold hearted towards Christ, you are the enemy or have become "unfaithful" to Christ. Next we know that if we are lukewarm Christ will spew us out of His mouth which is a rejection from Christ. Which means that the only acceptable temperature for us to be at before we are excepted by Christ is to be HOT with Love for Christ.

Which means that the bottom line here in the word of God is that our love for the Lord should be HOT because if we are cold or lukewarm we will be rejected by the Lord and since there are only three temperature levels spoken of in the bible we know that the word of God says ALL/HOT or NOTHING. Where God is concerned there is no compromising and there is nothing game about it. It is eternally significant.

We all know that we have been delivered/saved from ourselves by Christ. But what does 2 Cor. 1:10 have to do with being all or nothing?

[Massorite]

And the reason for all of these hypocrite's is the "Once saved always saved" doctrinal teaching which is another lie from the pits of hell.

Yeah.....But we wouldn't want to make generalizations regarding the pandemic of saints angaging in intenional sin and leaving the church.......would we?

I think you cheapen a serious problem in the church by blaming it on OSAS theology. In doing so you also use OSNAS theology as a means of creating a false crisis in the church. After all, if no one is ever truly saved at any one given time or place (OSNAS theology certainly places persons in a constant state of questioning and being unsure of their eternal standing before God) then it becomes easier for religion and man to control them.

We should know, the largest and oldest religion in the world has been doing it to its people for centuries.

Ah Ah Ah You got me wrong. I am saved and a sinner and living in repented sin as best as I can can. The longer I have a relationship with Christ the more sinful temptations are ineffective on me. And besides who in the world ever gave you the idea that the church wasn't in crisis? The gay agenda has infiltrated all of the offspring of the Catholic church. When the word of God is preached it is horribly watered down because everbody is worried about offending some one. Laws are being passed that call what the word of God says "Hate Speech". Men and women have been mad deity by other men and it is said that we should pray to them instead oif Christ and 1 billion so called Christians believe that one man is the mouth piece of God

Most churches are cutting back on there services to the point that it is sometimes hard to find a church that still has wednsday night services. Living in unpepented sin while still going to church is rampent in the body of Christ and it doesn't matter wether one is a drunk, or gay or a drugy or a child molester or what ever.

I know of two gay men who are living together who have scripture posted on their refrig and they think that they are still going to be blessed by Christ at their death. One of the biggest reasons these people can justify unrepented sin after salvation is through the "once saved always saved" doctrinal teaching. This false doctrinal teaching and several more are the reason why the body of Christ is a cripled deformed lump of untruth in the eyes of Christ and people like you like to shoot others down when they are trying to call attention to that which God hates.

What do you mean when you say "creating a false crisis in the church". I don't have to creat a false crisis in the church because there is already a real really big one in the church and it grws bigger by the day. Open your eyes, smell the coffee and pull your head out of the sand because the church is falling down around you and you can't see it falling.

And please could you tell me what OSAS and OSNAS theology is because I am not up on words like that?

[larryt]

ttuna,

John 3:16 says "Eternal life"..................not "temporary life" based on what we do. It is what "Christ" did for us!

Eternal life is permanent, but it is permanent for every soul that every lived. However, eternal life with Christ is a whole different matter.

In John 3:16 is the word "believe" or "believed". the correct understanding is the meaning of to believe, but OSAS makes the meaning believed. Therein lies the misunderstanding. Check your Greek on this word and you will then know.

Where did you ever get this Idea?????? That everyone that ever lived has eternal life is absolutely contrary to the Word of God.

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Only those that BELIEVE have eternal/everlasting life.

Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Only those that partake of Christ have eternal life.

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Again only those that believe, who are the sheep and not goats have eternal life.

Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Only those that are Christ's have eternal life.

Ac 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Only the elect have eternal life.

1Jo 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, [even] eternal life.

Only believers have eternal life. John is talking to believers not unbelievers.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Those that believe not shall NOT see life. Only believers.

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Again only they that believe have eternal life.

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Only those that BELIEVE have eternal/everlasting life.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

If you don't know the father then you don't have life.

1Jo 3:14