Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[st. Worm]

The same rules of literary interpretation apply to the Bible as any other book regardless of the fact it is God breathed. You can figure out some words mean different things from context. The Bible was written over a very long period of time by different writers in different languages. If you think you can just pick it up and read it as if it were a 6th grade primer you are mistaken.

If one cannot read the instruction book without help from an allegedly "more qualified" individual, then who is helping the "more qualified" person?

Your position is in contradiction with the Bible.

In the Bible, the Bereans searched the scriptures themselves. It doesn't say, "And the Bereans went and asked the priesthood or some other apostle whether those things were so..." Similarly, the text also does not say, "and the Bereans took Paul at his word because he was called of God and simply more qualified..." No, but it says "The Bereans searched the scriptures..."

You are simply not teachable and just want to use any reason to continue your anti-church rant.

sw

The fact that I have "somehow" learned to post on this internet forum refutes your reasoning. If I were unteachable how did I learn anything? If I were unteachable, I would not be a christian to begin with. You have, however, managed to make yet another ad hominem attack on me.

If you hate it so much why don't you try Buddhism or Islam?

Because I don't hate the church, at least not what's left of the true church, and I don't hate the Lord. I do, on the other hand, "hate every false way." You seem not to be able to distinguish the "church" from the Lord himself. I do not follow any religion or religious group. I follow the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

I'm not sure where to go with you at this point whysoblind. You like to create strawmen as an excuse to rant some more. The fact that the church needs an educated pastorate does not take away from a Christian's responsibility to be a good "Berean". Yet you try to play one truth off against the other as if they are contradictory. The Apostles themselves represented a learned pastorate and their teacher/seminary was Christ himself. You enjoy criticizing men who have dedicated their entire life to learning about the Bible and developing the skills necessary to do so. Well have at it, but by refusing to utilize the skills of those who have gone before you is quite imprudent. All biblical interpretations are not equal and not all people are equally gifted or trained in that regard.

As far as the term justified or justification goes, if you can't understand the difference between justified in the salvific sense and justified with regard to proof then I don't know how else to explain it to you.

sw

[HAZARD]

St Worm,

I do believe the board is being spammed by the Church of Christ people, Thaddaeus, Cardcaptor, and Hazard. All of the C of C talking points are here. When do you get to the part about inviting me to a "Bible study" guys?

Just so you know, I am not a C of C people. I cannot speak for the others however. I am Orthodox and the view that I presented has been the belief and practice of the Church since the Apostles. It can be followed throughout history in every age.

A good Bible study would greatly help you in my humble opinion.

I DO NOT BELONG to any organization, church, or religious group of any knid. I do read the Bible. Even sinners can understand the Bible, so it is of no great achievement for saints to be able to understand it.

And, Dear worm?

We are all created free moral agents, that simply means, we are free to choose our own destiny, nothing more. God will not force anyone to accept salvation if they do not want to be saved.

Haz.

[Thaddaeus]

Hazard,

I DO NOT BELONG to any organization, church, or religious group of any knid. I do read the Bible. Even sinners can understand the Bible, so it is of no great achievement for saints to be able to understand it.

Understanding is not really the key. The important factor is to believe and act that belief. I'm sure Satan understands it much better than any Christian even. He knows your weak spots and will constantly assail you hoping to break you down. One cannot live in this world, as a Christian, outside of the Body of Christ. To think so, to believe one can, is to deny Christianity altogether.

The Church as referenced in the Bible is not foremost an organization. It is an organic, ontological entity unified in and through Christ. The Church is the physcial manifestation of Christ on earth. It is real and it is visible.

Of that Body I am a member.

However, I am also a member of an organization. It happens to be the Antiochian Communion. This organization is beholden to no other organization within the Church. It is an independent, totally separate entity with a heirarchy. These organizations are unified by the one faith, same practice In Christ. Christ is the Head of that Organization.

[undone]

YES

[larryt]

St Worm,

I do believe the board is being spammed by the Church of Christ people, Thaddaeus, Cardcaptor, and Hazard. All of the C of C talking points are here. When do you get to the part about inviting me to a "Bible study" guys?

Just so you know, I am not a C of C people. I cannot speak for the others however. I am Orthodox and the view that I presented has been the belief and practice of the Church since the Apostles. It can be followed throughout history in every age.

A good Bible study would greatly help you in my humble opinion.

Hi Thaddaeus,

Good to hear you are not C of C. I have not participated lately due to time constraints but sw has stated much that I agree with.

One statement you make is that you are orthodox. I firmly disagree. You have related several points that I have NEVER heard before. I queried you early in this thread as to those points.

Again the Lord Jesus Christ has done everything, is everything and will do everything for those that believe in Him. By Grace are we saved, and not of works, it is the gift of God.

Ro 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

LT

[larryt]

Hazard,

I DO NOT BELONG to any organization, church, or religious group of any knid. I do read the Bible. Even sinners can understand the Bible, so it is of no great achievement for saints to be able to understand it.

Understanding is not really the key. The important factor is to believe and act that belief. I'm sure Satan understands it much better than any Christian even. He knows your weak spots and will constantly assail you hoping to break you down. One cannot live in this world, as a Christian, outside of the Body of Christ. To think so, to believe one can, is to deny Christianity altogether.

The Church as referenced in the Bible is not foremost an organization. It is an organic, ontological entity unified in and through Christ. The Church is the physcial manifestation of Christ on earth. It is real and it is visible.

Of that Body I am a member.

However, I am also a member of an organization. It happens to be the Antiochian Communion. This organization is beholden to no other organization within the Church. It is an independent, totally separate entity with a heirarchy. These organizations are unified by the one faith, same practice In Christ. Christ is the Head of that Organization.

Hi Thad.,

Is that the The Antiochian Orthodox Church?

LT

[Thaddaeus]

larryt,

One statement you make is that you are orthodox. I firmly disagree. You have related several points that I have NEVER heard before. I queried you early in this thread as to those points.

I'm sorry. I am not aware that I did not answer them. Could you either refer to which post or simply list these points?

You quoted Rom 11:6, is this one of them?

Is that the The Antiochian Orthodox Church?

Yes,

[53Christian]

Romans 11:29 - "For God's gifts and his call are irrevocable".

John 10:28 "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish: no-one can snatch them out of my hand"

Another misquote from the lies of OSAS, so lets look at the verse in full conext:

Jhn 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

Jhn 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

So those that are never snatched out of Jesus hand are those that FOLLOW HIM. We dont just believe and praise and pray and sit back... we must follow Him. Read the Sermon on the Mount (Matt ch 5, 6, 7).

If we dont Follow Jesus, then whether we are Born Again or not, Jesus will be saying this to us:

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'

Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

The above is for Christians. Not atheists or people of other religions. It is for CHristians. We are called to Follow Jesus and do Gods Will. If we don't= No Heaven. OSAS is a lie from the devil to cause confusion, complacency and sinfull attitudes amongst Christians

If youbelieve in OSAS, then i would repent and start combining Faith with Good Works (such as those described in the Sermon on the Mount), as in the Book of James, Faith without Works is DEAD.

Peace

Jai

It is soley on our faith in Christ Jesus and the works of Christ Jesus on the Cross and in His Resurrection. Nothing more, and surely not of works. As being so would make us still under the law and not Christ Jesus. It is by "true" faith in Him alone.

Edited December 7, 2006 by 53Christian

[TomPJr]

A young child was asked how many True God

[TomPJr]

Romans 11:29 - "For God's gifts and his call are irrevocable".

John 10:28 "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish: no-one can snatch them out of my hand"

Another misquote from the lies of OSAS, so lets look at the verse in full conext:

Jhn 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

Jhn 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

So those that are never snatched out of Jesus hand are those that FOLLOW HIM. We dont just believe and praise and pray and sit back... we must follow Him. Read the Sermon on the Mount (Matt ch 5, 6, 7).

If we dont Follow Jesus, then whether we are Born Again or not, Jesus will be saying this to us:

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'

Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

The above is for Christians. Not atheists or people of other religions. It is for CHristians. We are called to Follow Jesus and do Gods Will. If we don't= No Heaven. OSAS is a lie from the devil to cause confusion, complacency and sinfull attitudes amongst Christians

If youbelieve in OSAS, then i would repent and start combining Faith with Good Works (such as those described in the Sermon on the Mount), as in the Book of James, Faith without Works is DEAD.

Peace

Jai

It is soley on our faith in Christ Jesus and the works of Christ Jesus on the Cross and in His Resurrection. Nothing more, and surely not of works. As being so would make us still under the law and not Christ Jesus. It is by "true" faith in Him alone.

obviously You don't read your bible! of course you probably don't think you need to since all you have to do is believe. How nice!

Sadly that is wrong! We must have faith, repent, and be converted. We are saved by grace, through faith, which brings about conversion. We need all three. Conversion naturally produces fruit. the bible says that faith without works (or fruit) is empty.

Our works do not merrit salvation. Grace does. But not grace alone. there is a big IF! Grace is a gift of God so we might not recieve our just reward, which is death. We have that gift freely, IF we repent and convert. Grace is not salvation... It is the means by which we can obtain salvation. The gift of grace is a way out of our deserving punishment.

If we do not produce fruit, which is love, our faith is empty, and he will cut us down just like the fig tree that was fruitless.

there are many parables about this.

Even Satan and his angels believe and tremble. Will they live forever?

Noone can snatch you out of Gods hand, but you can decide to jump.

God says if you love me keep my commandments. If you do not love the Lord, you are fruitless, and will be cut off the tree.

Thank God he is longsuffering that noone should perrish. Now is the time to repent and convert.(keep God's law: the law is LOVE). Many will say Lord Lord, havn't we prphesied and cast out demons in your name? and he will say get away, I never knew you. I submit to you that many of these people accepted Christ, and believed that they were saved. However, they were not truly converted.

If you love God you will naturally want to keep his laws. Everyone of them is for our good and the good of others.

If you live without regard to the law then haw can you say you love him. His law is a reflection of his character. If we don't embrace it he will say "I never knew you".