Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[Larry 2]

I actually believe that Jesus died for my sins.

Dan

yeah I also actually believe that Jesus died for my sins. praise God for His marvelous work. Now what is your point is this your idea of chasing one down to get them to admit to something.

OC

Dear OC, I'm sorry if I got this reply in the wrong place as I am still learning this system -. Originally I accidently posted my first response two times, and have finally figured this thread if that's what you call them was here was on page 77, now 78 and could never find my reply.

Good question, and I believe James 1:12-16 one hundred percent, and to me it is one of the reasons we fight the good fight of faith; there is a crown as reward for running the race given us, and death as a result of sin. What sin do you think this is that is a sin unto death?

Going a bit further we see that James 2:10 says

[eric]

The scriptures that you quoted, Larry2 have been read by myself probably more than you, so I diddn't just skip them, but I am definiely not a dispensationalist and far from it, so there is not much point in my countering them, I just study them probably a little more carefully than you do.

And I have run a red light occasionaly, when not concentrating, but I'm not thumbing my nose at the law, either man's or God's and I take a glass of beer occasuonally and get angry sometimes and cuss telecom when my computer is a bit slow.....for Dan's benefit as well as yours..... but if I was stupid enough to be cheating on my wife on the hour that the Lord returns.............it would be adios amigo, eric old son.

There is a difference between fumbling the catch, and throwing the ball away deliberately, just as there's a difference from taking your eye off the ball, and deliberately closing your eyes.

eric ( with a little e )

[Openly Curious]

I actually believe that Jesus died for my sins.

Dan

yeah I also actually believe that Jesus died for my sins. praise God for His marvelous work. Now what is your point is this your idea of chasing one down to get them to admit to something.

OC

Heres the thing OC ..I have lived long enough to hear good biblical arguements from both sides of this issue. Life has taught me that there is our version of holyness and God's. God's is the standard not ours. Anyone who believes his life is up to God's standard is decieving himself. (her) Yet, God's perfect standard is the requirement to get into heaven. When we sincerely invite Christ to come and take over we are imputed with his rightousnous. Its a total act of grace. I'm not saying this gives us a ticket to go out and have a sin party. Yet we still have sin in our lives. If you have Christ there will be a very uneasy feeling with sin because you are now at war with yourself. Yes we do change but its not an overnight event always. Its a process that we will endure for the rest of our lives. Repent means to turn around and go the other direction. If your walking down a rocky slope and turn around, its still a rocky walk up and you still stumble. I believe the Holy Spirit guides us in the right direction but the Holy Spirit is a gift. Now if you are as happy as can be and satisfied and fufilled with your sin then I would say your conversion was false to begin with. You only said words you didn't mean. God knows if really want him or not. If you truely saw your condition and called out to him, you have been turned around and forgiven through what Jesus did. I also believe that sin has consequences. Oh! Yes...David found out the hard way. But I believe we still are saved. David was after God's own heart. Its either grace or justice. We all deserve to go to hell. I don't want justice. Do you?

Dan

Well, I gave thoughts to what you have said here and as I ponder what you have said I believe that God's word is the standard that we his redeemed people are to live our lives by as God's word is our standard for it teaches us what is right and what is wrong without it we would not know how to live before God for it is the word of God that gives us knowledge of God. God did not give a standard of holiness that we His children could not live by. What God did was to set us free from our former lifestyles of sin we live in prior to salvation so that we "could" walk in newness of life before him as He imparted to us the divine nature of himself His Spirit and presence into our lives. But at the same time we still have our old nature the old man of sin we were born with with all it's temptations to deal with. For the flesh (the old nature or sinful nature) fights against the Spirit (God presence, the imparted divine nature of God Himself with us) as we are made a whole new creature and now have these two natures in us instead of as before as we only had the sin nature we were born with.

When one is drawn away from the temptations of the sinful fleshly nature that we were born with and enticed by it and they give into the flesh and sin as a result then that is falling into sin and must be repented of and dealt with. As we must follow the Spirit of God in our lives and walk a life pleasing to Him as we learn from Him in His word and obey the word. This is known as walking in the Spirit and resisting the temptations of Satan when he comes tempting our nature of sin our flesh. But God has imparted His nature within us so that we could yield to His Spirit and not yield to the nature of sin in us. If we choose to yield to the nature of sin in us then we are in sin and are under the curse of the law but if we walk and yield to the Spirit of God within us then we are not under the curse of the law as we are no longer living according to the old man but have put on the new man and walk a new life and do not return to our former lifestyle of sin as we live now according to the word of God. As this work is the work of God in imparted or imputing His righteousness within us and not the works of ourselves.

All of us prior to salvation was worthy of death as under the old covenant there was not one law that was given by God that could make one righteous as the old covenant was imperfect in that it could not make one righteous and was of no effect. But the bringing in of a better covenant with better promises was perfect as Christ the supreme sacrifice and His work on the cross we were made the righteousness of God being made a new creature as He imputed righteousness into us by the work of Christ not the law in the old covenant.

David lived under the old covenant and had to live by the law of Moses which could never make one righteous as their was no law he could follow to make himself righteous that was given nor could the blood of the bulls and goats take away the nature of sin the old sin nature in our fleshly body that is prone to sin as we were born with it through the first man Adam. Under the old covenant it still took the faith of Abraham looking forward in faith to the coming of the Messiah and adhering to the law of Moses which only gave one the knowledge of sin but could not take their sins away.

Under the new covenant the second man Adam being Jesus Christ imparts His divine nature within us and sets us free so that we are no no a slave to the old man of sin we were born with so that we can freely choose who we want to serve while living in our fleshly body but God will not make a slave out of us as we ourselves have to choose which nature we want to follow and yield our lives unto as Romans 6 teaches and Galatians 5 and Colossians 3 as we are to mortify or put to death the deeds of the old sin nature with in us and to put it off and to put on the new man as we walk and follow the things of God.

If David under the old covenant would not have repented and found mercy and grace and started once again to obey and keep the law of Moses then even he himself would have been cut off from among God's people as he turned from his sin and did not continue in it.

You said in your post above at the end that it was either "grace" or "justice" and you said that you did not want "justice" then asked me, Do you?

As I pondered that my reply is "YES" I want "JUSTICE" and I got it through the Lord Jesus Christ who bestowed upon me His grace. I'll explain my thoughts. We all were born in sin slaves to Satan because of what happened in the garden which was no fault of our own but the fault of Satan who brought temptation to man and they fell being enticed to disobey God. As a result death passed upon all that would ever be born into this world and yet we had did nothing wrong yet and hadn't did no sin but we was born a slave a captive to sin from the start though "NO FAULT OF OUR OWN" we were innocent but yet born guilty before God.

Well I'm glad through the Lord Jesus Christ that God rightened the wrong that was done in the garden unto us and set us free and justified us as though we had never done any sin as he removed our sin from us taking it away as far as the east is from the west when we was born again. It was by His grace that we are justified as the wrong done by Satan to mankind was vindicated and we were justified in the eyes of God so my answer is yes I want justice and it's by faith through grace that one can be justified.

OC

[Openly Curious]

Hello Larry 2 hang in there while your learning to get around I understand,

Good question, and I believe James 1:12-16 one hundred percent, and to me it is one of the reasons we fight the good fight of faith; there is a crown as reward for running the race given us, and death as a result of sin. What sin do you think this is that is a sin unto death?

In response to your question to me regarding 1 John 5:16-21 I offer the following scriptures in relation to these verses

Job 42:8 Jeremiah 7:16: 1John 5:21 Galatians 1:4 Titus 2:13

James 5:14-26 John 17:9 Luke 24:45 1 John 5:11, 12

Matthew 12:31 James 3:4 John 17:3 1 Corinthians 10:4

Mark 3:29 1 Peter 1:23 Isaiah 9:6

Hebrews 6:4, 6 James 1:27 Acts 20:28

The prayer of a righteous man availeth much and the prayer of a sinner shall save his soul from death if he but ask in faith.

Going a bit further we see that James 2:10 says

[Larry 2]

The scriptures that you quoted, Larry2 have been read by myself probably more than you, so I diddn't just skip them, but I am definiely not a dispensationalist and far from it, so there is not much point in my countering them, I just study them probably a little more carefully than you do.

And I have run a red light occasionaly, when not concentrating, but I'm not thumbing my nose at the law, either man's or God's and I take a glass of beer occasuonally and get angry sometimes and cuss telecom when my computer is a bit slow.....for Dan's benefit as well as yours..... but if I was stupid enough to be cheating on my wife on the hour that the Lord returns.............it would be adios amigo, eric old son.

There is a difference between fumbling the catch, and throwing the ball away deliberately, just as there's a difference from taking your eye off the ball, and deliberately closing your eyes.

eric ( with a little e )

The scriptures that you quoted, Larry2 have been read by myself probably more than you, so I diddn't just skip them, but I am definiely not a dispensationalist and far from it, so there is not much point in my countering them, I just study them probably a little more carefully than you do.

And I have run a red light occasionaly, when not concentrating, but I'm not thumbing my nose at the law, either man's or God's and I take a glass of beer occasuonally and get angry sometimes and cuss telecom when my computer is a bit slow.....for Dan's benefit as well as yours..... but if I was stupid enough to be cheating on my wife on the hour that the Lord returns.............it would be adios amigo, eric old son.

There is a difference between fumbling the catch, and throwing the ball away deliberately, just as there's a difference from taking your eye off the ball, and deliberately closing your eyes.

eric ( with a little e )

Dear Eric, over the years I have encountered this stuff in your following quote countless times. Someone says this scripture does not mean what God said because I have studied it. Show me the scripture.

Quoting you: there is not much point in my countering them, I just study them probably a little more carefully than you do.

Next you seem to want to say it that it is alright to have little sins, but not big ones. Then you follow the path of human reasoning below. Is this just another way, and say anything to stay away from scripture?

Quoting you: There is a difference between fumbling the catch, and throwing the ball away deliberately, just as there's a difference from taking your eye off the ball, and deliberately closing your eyes. This is your response?

Just in case you missed it, I quote the following verse again with additional verses. Somehow you still seem to not understand that any sin is sin to God, but you try to justify your small sins as alright. And somewhere in all your learning you think you are justified by what you do. Galatians 5:4 below says that you fall from grace by doing that.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Galatians 3:10 says that "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Again I invite you to use scripture instead of things like, I have read it more than you, I understand it better, I don

[Larry 2]

Dear Brother OC, I reversed the order of answers to your responses due to lengthy list of scriptures many may not want to wade through; thanks

Quoting you here: Romans 4:6-15--Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord "WILL NOT IMPUT SIN" (what)

(vs15) -- "Because the law worketh wrath for where no law is there is no transgression"

Galatians 5:18 -- "But if ye be led of the Spirit ye are not under the law"

Which of the two nature's are you following the sinful desires of fleshly body and it's appetites or the divine nature of God imparted unto you at the new birth? All born again believers have this tug of war within us but we have been set free from the old man and can yield our desires over to the Lord and His will and follow after the things of God as we walk according to the new man created in Christ Jesus and give ourselves over to God's nature dwelling on the inside of us. God did not make us slaves to the old man of sin that we all were born with Satan made slaves out of us and we were born in bondage to sin slavery but God through his son Jesus Christ set us free and imparted his divine nature into us making us a new creature but what God did not do was make us a slave to Him but set us free to choose between the two natures residing in us and if we love the Lord the we will obey and keep His commandments and follow his word that teaches us right from wrong.

OC, I agree with you totally here, and I also believe there are rewards given for patiently keeping His word, or the patience of His word in Revelation 3:10.

[eric]

Whoa, Larry2, I wasn't being sarcastic in implying that you don't read your bible or was I jumping on you, but if that is the impression you get well I apologise. This particular topic has been around on this board for over four years, that I know of and will always be discussed.

Some of your posts are so long, that I am losing the point you are trying to get across, so I'll ask you, inspite of your biblical passages, Do you believe that once you have made your decision to follow the Lord Jesus and have repented and confessed that you are in need of salvation, that whether you get a speedingticket or become a serial killer, get shot in the act of one of your crimes your eternal salvation is secure. Is that what you are saying? A yes or no will be enough answer.

[Larry 2]

Whoa, Larry2, I wasn't being sarcastic in implying that you don't read your bible or was I jumping on you, but if that is the impression you get well I apologise. This particular topic has been around on this board for over four years, that I know of and will always be discussed.

Some of your posts are so long, that I am losing the point you are trying to get across, so I'll ask you, inspite of your biblical passages, Do you believe that once you have made your decision to follow the Lord Jesus and have repented and confessed that you are in need of salvation, that whether you get a speedingticket or become a serial killer, get shot in the act of one of your crimes your eternal salvation is secure. Is that what you are saying? A yes or no will be enough answer.

Dear Eric, I wish yes or no would surfice, but the point I tried to make was that all sin is considered sin with God; if you're guilty of one sin, you are guilty of all if you are looking to pay in hell for it if not confessed. James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Yes I believe that if I get killed speeding, I am still saved.

God bless you in Jesus' name - larry 2

[eric]

From larry2,

Dear Eric, I wish yes or no would surfice, but the point I tried to make was that all sin is considered sin with God; if you're guilty of one sin, you are guilty of all if you are looking to pay in hell for it if not confessed. James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Yes I believe that if I get killed speeding, I am still saved.

God bless you in Jesus' name - larry 2

So do I Larry, but what about the serial killer who gets shot whilst he just finiished murdering some one, who was once genuine when he repented and became born again?

[Openly Curious]

Hello Larry 2

the point I tried to make was that all sin is considered sin with God; if you're guilty of one sin, you are guilty of all if you are looking to pay in hell for it if not confessed. James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I do not believe that if I commit one sin that I am guilty of all the sins listed under the old testament law and therefore I will only give account for the actual sins I commit and not what I do not commit. According to 1 John 5:17 it say all unrighteousness (wrong doing) is sin.

OC