mortal or immortal soul ?

[billie]

Is this thread still going??

[Guest LAW]

maybe it's just me, but i'm afraid that this thread has gotten off topic a bit...

it now seems to be about who the believer listens to for interpretation.

i have to disagree about listening only to the spirit, otherwise we would not gather together to have doctrine/beliefs reviewed by fellow believers.

before the teeth-clenching disagreement, i found the theology re: spirit/soul quite fascinating and helpful. thanks,

[Floatingaxe]

Far more scriptures refer with certainty to ' mortal man ' than the few ambiguous ones people count on to believe in the immortal soul.

In the very beginning God said : for dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return Gen.3 v 19. This was said AFTER God had created Adam a ' living ' soul Gen.2 v 7 motivated / activated by a breath of air / wind. Therefore when we stop breathing we are de-activated and die, become lifeless.

Scripture says man was made a ' living soul ' through wind-power blown into us by God. Take that away and we are a ' dead soul ' an inactive Being. God only has immortality now 1Tim.6 v 16 .

Scripture says the soul (body) can die or be destroyed and return to dust, Job 34 v 15, Ez.18 v 4, 20. Mat.10 v 28. Gen.3 v 19. Mal.4 v 3. Obed.v 16. Job 33 describes a soul as a human being suffering human conditions.

What we find next is ' a spirit in man '. This spirit gives man awareness and comprehension, the ability to understand, Job 32 v 8. it is FORMED in man by God for that purpose - not to make us immortal. Zech.12 v 1. This human spirit is primarily to give man comprehension. By this spirit we can begin to understand God, to realize we need to be given HIS HOLY SPIRIT and until we get it we have not eternal life in us. Obedience to God is a requirement in order to get it Acts 5 v 32.

False beliefs do away with many scriptures relevant to salvation and burning eternally in hell-fire is one of them. It is sinful and wicked to believe such a thing of a merciful loving God who never had any such intention. People have assumed it because the wicked will share eternal hell-fire with evil spirits who can not die - but man being physical / material can and will die,if he has not repented when he had the chance. How could they become ashes under the feet of the Saints if they burned eternally ? Mal.4.

Man is a Spirit, which has a soul, which possesses a body. That Explains everything. Pretty simple. The Spirit will never cease to exist. It will either be eternally "alive" on the New Earth, or eternally "dead" in Hell. Either way, it will be very much in a state of what we refer to as "life."

[Beta]

CJ, I am going to make this my last post on this topic, we are getting nowhere.

Just to answer your question on Rev.6 v 9. They are the Saints who have died ' in Christ ' and are awaiting their resurrection to eternal life. They have nothing to do with the wicked souls condemned to damnation in the lake of fire. They are two different groups of people. The Righteous will be given eternal life and the wicked eternal death, dead for ever. Scripture says there is no conscious life in death - end of story.

[Guest Mike_CPKing]

Man you guys have me completely lost as where it is you are trying to go with this discussion...first your preaching that the soul will die...poof!...gone for all eternity, having no consciousness of either torment or glory...but now your jumping back into a belief in immortality of the soul?.... you guys have to be Jehovah's...the only other time I have witnessed this type of confusion in ones beliefs is when encoutering the JW's.

Peace

CJ

Hi CJ,

The problem is that the word 'soul' in the bible does not mean the essence of a person, nor the conscious mind.

It means:

Nephesh - Psyche - Soul

The important passage in Genesis 2:7 sets the scene for this 'window - word' into the nature of personhood. An individual becomes a 'nephesh' from the infusion of divine breath into moulded dust. In physical terms 'nephesh' means, 'neck', 'throat', 'gullet' and came to mean 'life', that 'vital motion' which distinguishes a living being from a corpse.

'Nephesh' has such a variety of senses that we must make a careful definition in each particular case. Meanings overlap and are used side by side. It is easy to end up with contradictory statements about 'nephesh'. Here are some of the central statements about 'nephesh':-

[Guest LAW]

OK, CJ, i'm at work, so hitting and missing various discussions, not always able to read all the comments.

I certainly admire your insisting that scriptures be taken in context.

I just wanted to know answers to the following and, if you answered the before, please forgive me:

1. in this thread are you discussing "soul" as apart from man's spirit?

2. Do you believe scriptures support that there is no life after death?

thanks, law

[Guest LAW]

oops!

(shows that you can't concentrate well on 2 things at once)

my last post should have been directed to "CP King", not to CJ.

ahhh, time to go home

[Guest Mike_CPKing]

OK, CJ, i'm at work, so hitting and missing various discussions, not always able to read all the comments.

I certainly admire your insisting that scriptures be taken in context.

I just wanted to know answers to the following and, if you answered the before, please forgive me:

1. in this thread are you discussing "soul" as apart from man's spirit?

2. Do you believe scriptures support that there is no life after death?

thanks, law

Hi Law,

Thanks for the response and the intelligent questions.

1. The Hebrews believed in 'wholistic' beings where there was no notion of 'parts' like the pagan Greek view that is commonplace today. "spirit" is the breath of God that gives life and is the whole person under God's influence whether a believer or not. The spirit does not die, it returns to God who gave it (ecclesiates 12:7. Spirirt is also not the essence of a person either.

2: Yes, there is an afterlife. The Hebrews believed that once dead (The Nephesh had died), they were no longer 'Nephesh', but 'Rephaim' (Shadows, Job 3: ) where in death, they were not extinct, but experiencing the weakest form of life awaiting resurrection.

The bottom line is that man is not a 2 or 3 part being as the Greeks like Plato and Aristotle believed. "soul", "spirit", "body" are not components of a human, rather, they are aspects of the whole person. We are a totality.

[Floatingaxe]

CJ, I am going to make this my last post on this topic, we are getting nowhere.

Just to answer your question on Rev.6 v 9. They are the Saints who have died ' in Christ ' and are awaiting their resurrection to eternal life. They have nothing to do with the wicked souls condemned to damnation in the lake of fire. They are two different groups of people. The Righteous will be given eternal life and the wicked eternal death, dead for ever. Scripture says there is no conscious life in death - end of story.

In my Bible reading this morning I came across Matthew 18: 8-9...and I thought of this thread immediately...

If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

If there is an everlasting fire, as Jesus puts it, then what is the point of it being eternal, if not for eternal punishment of those cast there? There is no consuming, but rather eternal suffering. If those condemned to that unholy place, namely demons and unbelievers, are annihilated at once, why is it an "everlasting fire"? No, it is that our spirits live forever, either with God in the New Earth, Heaven, or in that place of punishment, Hell. It's a choice.

[kat8585]

I haven't read the entire thread, so this may already be in it, but what about where it says that God ONLY has mortality, and that we mortals will PUT ON immortality? Sorry, I don't remember where the texts are.