mortal or immortal soul ?

[Beta]

So, you believe that the eternal spirit of man cannot die? That an unsaved man cannot survive hell? Well the body cannot, but the spirit will be in eternal torment in Hell.

Psalm 9:17

The wicked shall be turned into hell, And all the nations that forget God.

Psalm 55:15

Let death seize them;Let them go down alive into hell, For wickedness is in their dwellings and among them.

Ezekiel 32:21

The strong among the mighty Shall speak to him out of the midst of hell With those who help him: They have gone down, They lie with the uncircumcised, slain by the sword.

How does one speak in hell except there is a consciousness? We certainly do have an eternal component, and that is why Jesus Christ came to save us! He wants us to live forever with Him, not be tormented forever apart from Him! There is so much more in store for us aftrer this life! We live maybe 70-80 years, but God has eternity planned for us!

I can see where we come apart - you believe in man's eternal spirit but you don't say when and how we get it. Certainly Jesus wants us to live for ever but it is not a cut and dried certainty, the wicked prove that. Are you saying we have this et.sp.from birth ? If so why do we need to repent, be baptized and believe the Gospel to receive God's own eternal Holy Spirit ?

Yes God has eternity planned for man, but not in hell-fire. We are not given GHSP to burn in hell, we receive it to enter the Kingdom of God. The wicked and disobedient do not have it when faced with the lake of fire, that is why they burn up to become ashes under the feet of the saints Mal.4.( and don't scare me with the lifespan you mention , I'm too close to the latter ) I believe that the scriptures you mention have a metaphorical content.

[billie]

We get it at conception.

[Beta]

If you could read my first post you will see where I'm coming from I explained the soul (body) and the function of the human spirit since it is not God's HSP. We receive that upon repentance and obedience to God when we are baptized (and by that is not meant infant christening)

I for one do not consider the physical body and the soul as being the same thing.

I believe that is what you are saying. ( the body and soul are the same )

So if this is what you believe, what happens to the non believer when they die? The bible tells us there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Do you not believe this?

Just asking.

Yes that is what I read in the Bible and I have quoted relevant scriptures to support my belief, esp. Job 33

The Bible is quite clear what happens to the unbeliever, the wicked and disobedient, they return to dust in Gehenna-fire.

[Guest man]

If you could read my first post you will see where I'm coming from I explained the soul (body) and the function of the human spirit since it is not God's HSP. We receive that upon repentance and obedience to God when we are baptized (and by that is not meant infant christening)

I for one do not consider the physical body and the soul as being the same thing.

I believe that is what you are saying. ( the body and soul are the same )

So if this is what you believe, what happens to the non believer when they die? The bible tells us there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Do you not believe this?

Just asking.

Yes that is what I read in the Bible and I have quoted relevant scriptures to support my belief, esp. Job 33

The Bible is quite clear what happens to the unbeliever, the wicked and disobedient, they return to dust in Gehenna-fire.

So you don't believe they are tormented forever and ever?

When a non believer dies, it's finished, lights out, there is no more, they cease to exist, there is no eternal punishment.

Is that what you believe?

[Openly Curious]

How about the truth ?

Where is immortal soul mentioned in the Bible ?

I have listed several scriptures that man is mortal and the soul can and does die. Jesus himself said so Mat.10 v 28. Since it is an important issue relevant to our salvation how come people are so disinterested and blindly continue to believe a lie ?

Hello Beta,

You have it all wrong and backwards as you are mixed up it is plain for me to see.

man is made up a three part being those three parts are body, soul and spirit you will find this in the book of

1 Thessalonians 5:23--"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

In the book of Genesis God formed man out of the dust of the ground being he built and created the body of Adam out of the dirt and when he was done building and molding the body of Adam it say that God breathed into that body that he created and when God put his breath into that body it was at that time Adam became a living soul. Adam had a body and a spirit and a soul after God breathed into him the breath of life. the body was form of the dust our flesh our spirits are who we are inside this body of clay who we really are our personalities and our soul is our minds wills and intellect the soul and spirit will never die they will in fact live forever as it tell us in the book of

2 Corinthians 5:6-9

Philippians 1:23-24

to be absent from our bodies is to be present with the Lord our bodies return to the dust from whence they came and they decay and return to the dust of the ground. But the spirit and soul the person inside living it that body does not ever die for that life returns back to the Lord upward who gave it to us to start with you can read this in the book of

Ecclesiastes 3:21; 12:7

3:21--""who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"

12:7--"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

It is not our soul that put on immortality. But it is at the resurrection that we will recieve a glorified body as our soul and spirit will be reunited with our bodies but they will not be bodies of mortal men like we live in now in the flesh but we will be reunited and given a glorified body like Jesus had when he was resurrected from the dead on the third day a spiritual body without flesh and blood.

as this mortal shall put on immortality will will have a body that will never ever be able to die get sick feel sorrow no pain no more death sickness disease heart aches no more crying and it will never ever again be able to be tempted with evil as there will be no evil present when this mortal flesh shall put on immortality and shall live for ever in heaven in the presence of the Lord.

the same is true for the wicked how ever they will have to spend eternity in torments a place where there is gnashing of teeth outer darkness away from the presence of the Lord a place of weeping and wailing if they do not accept the Lord Jesus Christ in this life.

So it is not our souls that put on immortality as our souls and spirits that live on the inside of this fleshly that goes back to God who gave them to us. While our earthly fleshly bodies goes back to the grave from whence they came and returns to dust and it is at the resurection our bodies will be raised again and at that time our mortal bodies that went back to the dust will put on immortality and our souls and spirit will be joined unto our glorified bodies as this mortal shall put on immortality.

Pilippians 3:21

Romans 8:23

OC

[Beta]

We get it at conception.

So what happens to all the scriptures referring to God's Holy Spirit ? Acts 2 v 38, 5 v 32, Why do we need to be born again of and by God's own H.SP. if we already have an eternal spirit?

Can you be a little more precise ?

[billie]

So what happens to all the scriptures referring to God's Holy Spirit ? Acts 2 v 38, 5 v 32, Why do we need to be born again of and by God's own H.SP. if we already have an eternal spirit?

Can you be a little more precise ?

The HS is different than our spirit. If you can produce Scripture proving that we have no spirit at all before conversion, I'd be happy to take a look at it.

We have to be born again to be forgiven our sins, cleansed from all unrighteousness, and adopted into the family of God.

[Beta]

How about the truth ?

Where is immortal soul mentioned in the Bible ?

I have listed several scriptures that man is mortal and the soul can and does die. Jesus himself said so Mat.10 v 28. Since it is an important issue relevant to our salvation how come people are so disinterested and blindly continue to believe a lie ?

Hello Beta,

You have it all wrong and backwards as you are mixed up it is plain for me to see.

man is made up a three part being those three parts are body, soul and spirit you will find this in the book of

1 Thessalonians 5:23--"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

In the book of Genesis God formed man out of the dust of the ground being he built and created the body of Adam out of the dirt and when he was done building and molding the body of Adam it say that God breathed into that body that he created and when God put his breath into that body it was at that time Adam became a living soul. Adam had a body and a spirit and a soul after God breathed into him the breath of life. the body was form of the dust our flesh our spirits are who we are inside this body of clay who we really are our personalities and our soul is our minds wills and intellect the soul and spirit will never die they will in fact live forever as it tell us in the book of

2 Corinthians 5:6-9

Philippians 1:23-24

to be absent from our bodies is to be present with the Lord our bodies return to the dust from whence they came and they decay and return to the dust of the ground. But the spirit and soul the person inside living it that body does not ever die for that life returns back to the Lord upward who gave it to us to start with you can read this in the book of

Ecclesiastes 3:21; 12:7

3:21--""who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"

12:7--"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

It is not our soul that put on immortality. But it is at the resurrection that we will recieve a glorified body as our soul and spirit will be reunited with our bodies but they will not be bodies of mortal men like we live in now in the flesh but we will be reunited and given a glorified body like Jesus had when he was resurrected from the dead on the third day a spiritual body without flesh and blood.

as this mortal shall put on immortality will will have a body that will never ever be able to die get sick feel sorrow no pain no more death sickness disease heart aches no more crying and it will never ever again be able to be tempted with evil as there will be no evil present when this mortal flesh shall put on immortality and shall live for ever in heaven in the presence of the Lord.

the same is true for the wicked how ever they will have to spend eternity in torments a place where there is gnashing of teeth outer darkness away from the presence of the Lord a place of weeping and wailing if they do not accept the Lord Jesus Christ in this life.

So it is not our souls that put on immortality as our souls and spirits that live on the inside of this fleshly that goes back to God who gave them to us. While our earthly fleshly bodies goes back to the grave from whence they came and returns to dust and it is at the resurection our bodies will be raised again and at that time our mortal bodies that went back to the dust will put on immortality and our souls and spirit will be joined unto our glorified bodies as this mortal shall put on immortality.

Pilippians 3:21

Romans 8:23

OC

Not quite as mixed-up as you think OC since I agree with much you are saying.I take note of the scriptures you mentioned but sometimes the wording is a little unclear as to the precise meaning and other scriptures have to be considered to throw a bit more light on a subject.

Eccl. says nothing about our souls going back to God - only our spirit, please note.

You say our soul is something eternal inside us yet Job 33 says v 20 so that his (man's) life abhores bread and his (man's) soul dainty meat, v 22 yes his soul draws near unto the grave and his life to the destroyers. Here we have life and soul linked together just as in Gen.2 v 7 = a living Being motivated by wind/air - not H.SP.power. Please read v 27, 28, 30. Clearly a soul can eat and it can die. But you are right in saying immortality is given in the resurrection but not to the wicked - so they will not be tormented eternally. This is a wicked accusation against a merciful loving God.

There is no scripture saying our spirit will be returned to us (presumably to give us eternal life ?) We will only become immortal through God's Holy Spirit in us.

[billie]

A "wicked accusation" made by Jesus in all four of the Gospels in numerous places.

Hell is real. Jesus spoke of Hell more often than Heaven.

[Beta]

So what happens to all the scriptures referring to God's Holy Spirit ? Acts 2 v 38, 5 v 32, Why do we need to be born again of and by God's own H.SP. if we already have an eternal spirit?

Can you be a little more precise ?

The HS is different than our spirit. If you can produce Scripture proving that we have no spirit at all before conversion, I'd be happy to take a look at it.

We have to be born again to be forgiven our sins, cleansed from all unrighteousness, and adopted into the family of God.

If you were to read my first post you will see my ref. to our (human) spirit plus scriptures. The Bible says there is a spirit in man ( given us for comprehension, not eternal life)

Yes we have to be born again and have our sins forgiven and yes we are to be born into the Family or Kingdom of God. I don't think we have a problem here, it arose when you mentioned conception and nothing else. I asked you to expand on that some more. Was not sure which conception you ref.to, human or spiritual - the Bible calls it ' begetting '.