mortal or immortal soul ?

[Beta]

I never said otherwise. Hope this satisfies.

What exactly are you saying, then, that those in Hell have no consciousness? Why then is Hell described as the place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth? Kind of hard to weep and gnash your teeth if you're unconscious.

Yes they have consciousness when they first experience fire just as we have now when a fire-victim , before a person completely burns up. I don't think we are told just how long the wicked will suffer in a fire but the fact is no human , no soul could withstand eternal burning. There comes a point when they will die and become ashes under the feet of the saints just as scripture says Mal.4 v 3. Scripture says the soul that sins shall die Ez.18 v 4, 20. That is all I'm saying, agreeing with scripture.

[Beta]

Hi Man, re. # 28 , for some reason I can not get your post up but since it is short I will memorise.

Do I believe there is no eternal punishment for man ? Scripture says the soul that sins shall die - it does not say the soul of the wicked shall live and be tormented and burn for ever in hell-fire.

Eternal punishment consists of being DEAD. DEATH IS the punishment. The lake of fire is eternal but man is a mortal soul UNTIL we are given God's Holy Spirit and become immoetal for the purpose of getting into Gods Kingdom - and not to be thrown into eternal torment.

If we had been given GHSP and ended up in hellfire HE would also be in it with us - including the devil, false Prophet, the beast and all evil. Surely that does not make sense. We already have this situation in this world, why perpetuate it into eternity ?

[Beta]

How about the truth ?

Where is immortal soul mentioned in the Bible ?

I have listed several scriptures that man is mortal and the soul can and does die. Jesus himself said so Mat.10 v 28. Since it is an important issue relevant to our salvation how come people are so disinterested and blindly continue to believe a lie ?

It is not relevant to our salvation, not at all.

The only thing relevant to our salvation is the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the acknowledgement that He IS God and having faith only in Him.

Do you acknowledge that Christ is God Beta?

Yes I do !

But didn't the DEMONS ALSO recognize Jesus for who he was ?

I believe there is a little more to our salvation than just that - else we would be no better than they ???

[Beta]

Hi beta,

Just out of curiosity, are you a Jehovah Witness?

Peace

CJ

No I am not a JW nor do I BELONG to any denomination .

I am a simple JUDEO CHRISTIAN trying to believe and obey the Word of God from the Bible.

[Openly Curious]

OPENLY CURIOUS

I'm afraid you've misunderstood the writings in the book of Job as Elihu is speaking within this text unto Job in reference to his pain and suffering in which his is currently going through as Elihu thinks Job is striving and fighting against God trying to get him to repent and be restored to God see vs 13 of text.

Job was hurting and so distraught that he had given up eating bread as he was in sack cloth and ashes even and had not even been eating meat as he had boils all over his body from head to toe. But he had deprived him self of food so long that you could see his bones that you couldn't see before as it say that in vs 21 as Job's flesh was wasting away in all of his trials getting close to death's door and Elihu is trying relentlessly to get Job to admit he sinned against God so he can be restored.

The souls of man can eat while in this flesh but when death comes eating to stay alive on earth want matter anymore to sustain his life for it is appointed unto man once to die after that the ressurrection to wit the redemption of our bodies. It is the body that gives up the ghost that is within us for without the spirit the body is dead with out our wills our minds and personalities that live in this earthly tabernacle the body is dead. a person who is considered brain dead has no life even if kept by artificial means they are gone from their body but yet the body is kept alive or the other organs in the body is kept in operation but the spirit and soul are already gone. When one gives up the ghost or spirt of God within that is when they are dead both the soul and spirit leaves the body at that time.

[Openly Curious]

Hi beta,

Just out of curiosity, are you a Jehovah Witness?

Peace

CJ

If not a Jehovah Witness then do you believe in "Soul Sleep?"

Cause that is what I see you are propagated thus far in all of your post.

OC

[Beta]

To be honest I'd never in my whole life heard of ' soul sleep ' until a few days ago on this board. Nor do I yet know what it means. I have not read about it in the Bible - have you ? And what is not in the word of God bears no importance for me. Man is full of crazy ideas and opinions.

[Beta]

OPENLY CURIOUS

I'm afraid you've misunderstood the writings in the book of Job as Elihu is speaking within this text unto Job in reference to his pain and suffering in which his is currently going through as Elihu thinks Job is striving and fighting against God trying to get him to repent and be restored to God see vs 13 of text.

Job was hurting and so distraught that he had given up eating bread as he was in sack cloth and ashes even and had not even been eating meat as he had boils all over his body from head to toe. But he had deprived him self of food so long that you could see his bones that you couldn't see before as it say that in vs 21 as Job's flesh was wasting away in all of his trials getting close to death's door and Elihu is trying relentlessly to get Job to admit he sinned against God so he can be restored.

The souls of man can eat while in this flesh but when death comes eating to stay alive on earth want matter anymore to sustain his life for it is appointed unto man once to die after that the ressurrection to wit the redemption of our bodies. It is the body that gives up the ghost that is within us for without the spirit the body is dead with out our wills our minds and personalities that live in this earthly tabernacle the body is dead. a person who is considered brain dead has no life even if kept by artificial means they are gone from their body but yet the body is kept alive or the other organs in the body is kept in operation but the spirit and soul are already gone. When one gives up the ghost or spirt of God within that is when they are dead both the soul and spirit leaves the body at that time.

OC, thank you for your detailed reply but it would really help if we could keep our posts shorter so we can sort each disagreement separately. Far too much stuff in long posts.

But let me say first of all that I never once said our soul is something eternal inside us. Please go back and check that it was someone else saying that. My whole point is that our soul is linked with our body and scripture repeatedly says our soul can and will die if we continue in sin. Please see scripts. Gen.3 v 19, Job 34 v 15, Ez.18 v 4, 20, Mat.10 v 28, Mal.4 v 3.

Saying the wicked will burn for ever would negate those scriptures referring to a mortal soul. How would you explain them please ?

You quote ; it is appointed unto man once to die and then the resurrection - no - and then the judgement Heb.9 v 27, lets stick to what the Word says or it could confuse.

You say soul and spirit go back to God - the word says it is the spirit that goes back to God, no mention of the soul. Eccl.12 it is important not to confuse the issue by adding to scripture.

You mention Rev.20, Rev.22, Gal.6, - not one of them support eternal / everlasting torment / burning for the wicked.

Please note again that I am not disputing eternal hell-fire, but the fact that the wicked will burn for ever in it. Scripture plainly says the soul that sins will die. It does not say anywhere it will live and burn for ever in hell. Sharing hell-fire with the devil the wicked have a part in his fate but will not themselves burn for ever . Having read Revelation I do know about the second death .

[Smalcald]

How about the truth ?

Where is immortal soul mentioned in the Bible ?

I have listed several scriptures that man is mortal and the soul can and does die. Jesus himself said so Mat.10 v 28. Since it is an important issue relevant to our salvation how come people are so disinterested and blindly continue to believe a lie ?

It is not relevant to our salvation, not at all.

The only thing relevant to our salvation is the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the acknowledgement that He IS God and having faith only in Him.

Do you acknowledge that Christ is God Beta?

Yes I do !

But didn't the DEMONS ALSO recognize Jesus for who he was ?

I believe there is a little more to our salvation than just that - else we would be no better than they ???

Thanks beta, and I do agree about having more than just an intellectual understanding. I was asking about Christ being God because some other groups which claim the soul dies also reject the Trinity, mainly the JW's.

I still don't think however that if someone is wrong one way or the other about if the soul dies and then is resurrected or if the soul goes directly to Christ, that belief would somehow be relevant to their salvation. It frankly seems like a minor point. To me either way I am cool, as long as I am with Christ either sooner or later.

But why did Christ tell the thief, " today you will be with Me in paradise "?

[Openly Curious]

OPENLY CURIOUS

Saying the wicked are punished for ever does not negate any scriptures it only does in your personal mindset because you believe the soul is somehow part of our flesh meaning our body that was formed of the dust. As long as you view things in this manner which is incorrect scriptures will remain a mystery to you. As I pointed out before man is made up of three parts and gave scripture is Thessalonians that showed that body soul and spirit. But in your theology or idealism you only think man is made up of two parts body and spirit. This is true because you think body and soul are only one part and they are not they are two parts. And until you get that straight in your thinking you will be at odds with scriptures.

The soul that sins will die but so will the soul of the righteous for it is appointed unto man once to die after that the judgment after we die we will all stand at the judment bar of Christ one day the righteous and the wicked we have to choose which state we stand before him in. All mortals the wicked and righteous will put on immortality and be resurrected from the dead scripture teaches that.

And you can see this in the parable found in Luke 16 the rich man and Lazurus for the rich man begged that Lazurus who was being comforted in Abraham's bosom would be able to come and dip his finger in water just to kool his tongue. Not only did he desire a drop of water but he had five brothers yet still alive on earth that he wanted Lazurus to be able to go back and warn them about hell so that they wouldn't go there and it was told to him if they didn't believe Moses and the prophet they want believe one though he was raised from the dead.

And one did rise from the dead and that was Jesus Christ if those who are unbelievers reject the Savior of the world it is to their own fate like the rich man in that parable. Mankind is without excuse.

OC

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BETA

Looks like we are at odds and likely to stay that way. I have repeatedly quoted several scriptures that clearly state that the soul of the wicked shall die. You either ignore those or you contradict them by saying even the wicked will be made immortal - yet you provide no scripture for that claim. Sorry if I have missed it but these long posts are not helping me. They are like a 5-course meal set before an infant. Unless you are prepared to tackle each issue as it arises we'll have to leave it. How about covering the scripts I gave re the death of the sinning soul ? Do you agree with those or not ?