mortal or immortal soul ?

[Beta]

I could hug you Pilgrim, not because you agree but that there is actually ONE person who reads his Bible.

Sorry to have been on the defencive but the opposition can be quite ruthless. Not that we should expect to be handled with kid-gloves since scripture tells us what awaits a true follower. Like you I do not so much blame people as their teachers and preachers. Sadly traditional christianity thrives on eternal hell-fire and eternal torment as if they got some satisfaction from seeing eternal suffering. Scripture says the soul of the wicked will be desroyed in hell-fire, it does not imply eternal suffering. As far as I understand eternal death IS eternal punishment because they will not share eternal life with God.

Immortality is not given to the wicked anywhere in scripture but to the righteous at their resurrection to eternal life.1Cor.15 when this mortal shall put on immortality.

[Arthur Durnan]

Three Cheers indeed, Beta, for Charles Taze Russell's Jehovah's False Witnesses, Ellen Gould Harmon White's SDAers, & their kith & kin who espouse precisely what you're seeking to foist upon an unsuspecting populace! So Jehovah God creates us, then "extinguishes" us into absolute "nothingness," then must "RE-create" to "come alive" all over again. And, of course, if we're "RE-created," how can we be the SAME individual?! The deer-fly in your soup is that Jehovah God pronounces RESURRECTION, not the JFW "RE-creation" fallacy. Leave that to the Russellites & the adherents of Ellen Gould Harmon White who are guilty of enuf confusion already without you.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Openly Curious]

I could hug you Pilgrim, not because you agree but that there is actually ONE person who reads his Bible.

Sorry to have been on the defencive but the opposition can be quite ruthless. Not that we should expect to be handled with kid-gloves since scripture tells us what awaits a true follower. Like you I do not so much blame people as their teachers and preachers. Sadly traditional christianity thrives on eternal hell-fire and eternal torment as if they got some satisfaction from seeing eternal suffering. Scripture says the soul of the wicked will be desroyed in hell-fire, it does not imply eternal suffering. As far as I understand eternal death IS eternal punishment because they will not share eternal life with God.

Immortality is not given to the wicked anywhere in scripture but to the righteous at their resurrection to eternal life.1Cor.15 when this mortal shall put on immortality.

you can't prove anything if you want answers and state your position food for your thoughts

Isaiah 66:24--"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me for "their worm shall not die" neither "shall their fire be quenched" and they shall be an abhoring unto all flesh."

notice the word "their" worm and "their" fire will last eternally.

Mark 9:44, 46, 48---(44) Where "their" worm dieth not and the fire is "not" quenched." (46) Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched. (48) Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched.

No where have you provided any proof that the wicked will be anninilated or burnt up to a crisp so to speak and be no more eternally punished even in Revelation 20:13-15 death and hell gave up those who had already died and went their and was "held" their until the ressurrection of the wicked. which refutes your claims that our body and souls being "one" goes to sleep in the grave at the time of death.

Well do you know what a resurrection is at all? As this is talking about the ressurrection mind you of the wicked who were being tormented in hell already that will be resurrected to be further punished throughout eternity. If you are resurrected then you live forever you do not ever die again as death has no more hold on us once we die physically as the case with the wicked in Revelation 20 a ressurrected body is not flesh and blood with bones blood and all that but it is a eternal spiritual body that is not touched with death anymore.

OC

[WillingToDie]

Three Cheers indeed, Beta, for Charles Taze Russell's Jehovah's False Witnesses, Ellen Gould Harmon White's SDAers, & their kith & kin who espouse precisely what you're seeking to foist upon an unsuspecting populace! So Jehovah God creates us, then "extinguishes" us into absolute "nothingness," then must "RE-create" to "come alive" all over again. And, of course, if we're "RE-created," how can we be the SAME individual?! The deer-fly in your soup is that Jehovah God pronounces RESURRECTION, not the JFW "RE-creation" fallacy. Leave that to the Russellites & the adherents of Ellen Gould Harmon White who are guilty of enuf confusion already without you.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

Dude, seems to me that you're totally missing the point. In fact, you're reading something that isn't there. Beta has never said anything about a re-creation. The "saved" are given eternal life, the "unsaved" are denied it. No re-creation involved there.

[Beta]

Thank you W T D for a true reading of my posts, appreciate it. Seems I'm being accused of all kinds of things I never said and I refrain from answering such posts to save pointless arguments. Thanks again.

[Openly Curious]

Thank you W T D for a true reading of my posts, appreciate it. Seems I'm being accused of all kinds of things I never said and I refrain from answering such posts to save pointless arguments. Thanks again.

Beta Do you believe that the wicked dead will be burnt poof like be no more forever?

OC

[Beta]

OC you are not asking this question with scripture in mind. Just what do you mean by the ' wicked dead ' being burnt in a puff of smoke ? It does not happen like that and you should know this from scripture. 2 Pt.3 v 7 gives some indication and when they have been judged they will meet their fate in the lake of fire.

[Openly Curious]

OC you are not asking this question with scripture in mind. Just what do you mean by the ' wicked dead ' being burnt in a puff of smoke ? It does not happen like that and you should know this from scripture. 2 Pt.3 v 7 gives some indication and when they have been judged they will meet their fate in the lake of fire.

The wicked dead are the unbelievers who have died without Christ like the righteous dead are the righteous saints the believers who died having recieved Christ as Lord and Saviour. Hence the

wicked dead = unbelievers or sinners

righteous dead= believers or saints

And the question I asked was a direct personal question to you?

Do you believe the wicked dead will be burnt up and be vanquished or annililated forever with no "everlasting" existence in that lake of fire they get thrown into?

I am so unclear what you believe because you will not come out and state your case leaving me in confusion on what your trying to say but not saying at the same time.

So according to 2 Peter 3:7 tell me what you think it means regarding the ungodly? and regarding that perdition of ungodly men what are your thoughts? All of this in light of the question I rephrased for you to answer regarding the wicked dead.

OC

[Beta]

OC you are not asking this question with scripture in mind. Just what do you mean by the ' wicked dead ' being burnt in a puff of smoke ? It does not happen like that and you should know this from scripture. 2 Pt.3 v 7 gives some indication and when they have been judged they will meet their fate in the lake of fire.

The wicked dead are the unbelievers who have died without Christ like the righteous dead are the righteous saints the believers who died having recieved Christ as Lord and Saviour. Hence the

wicked dead = unbelievers or sinners

righteous dead= believers or saints

And the question I asked was a direct personal question to you?

Do you believe the wicked dead will be burnt up and be vanquished or annililated forever with no "everlasting" existence in that lake of fire they get thrown into?

I am so unclear what you believe because you will not come out and state your case leaving me in confusion on what your trying to say but not saying at the same time.

So according to 2 Peter 3:7 tell me what you think it means regarding the ungodly? and regarding that perdition of ungodly men what are your thoughts? All of this in light of the question I rephrased for you to answer regarding the wicked dead.

OC

The incorrigible wicked who do not repent, who are not found written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire Rev.20 v 15 which is the second death v 14.

Jesus says . . . fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell Mat.10 v 28.

Mal.4 v 3 further says : you (the righteous) shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this.

I know there are scriptures ref. to eternal hell-fire prepared for the devil and his angels, the beast and false prophet but this in no way says that wicked man will burn eternally - their part in it is to be burnt up by it, resulting in the above mentioned scriptures - ashes and dust as many other already mentioned scripts. verify.

By the way the beast is not a person but our humanly corrupt political systems and likewise the false prophet is our earthly false religious systems. It is those that are eternally kept from rising up again. But the people who subscribe to these systems instead of Gods ways will burn up if they don't repent in time.

[Openly Curious]

OC you are not asking this question with scripture in mind. Just what do you mean by the ' wicked dead ' being burnt in a puff of smoke ? It does not happen like that and you should know this from scripture. 2 Pt.3 v 7 gives some indication and when they have been judged they will meet their fate in the lake of fire.

The wicked dead are the unbelievers who have died without Christ like the righteous dead are the righteous saints the believers who died having recieved Christ as Lord and Saviour. Hence the

wicked dead = unbelievers or sinners

righteous dead= believers or saints

And the question I asked was a direct personal question to you?

Do you believe the wicked dead will be burnt up and be vanquished or annililated forever with no "everlasting" existence in that lake of fire they get thrown into?

I am so unclear what you believe because you will not come out and state your case leaving me in confusion on what your trying to say but not saying at the same time.

So according to 2 Peter 3:7 tell me what you think it means regarding the ungodly? and regarding that perdition of ungodly men what are your thoughts? All of this in light of the question I rephrased for you to answer regarding the wicked dead.

OC

The incorrigible wicked who do not repent, who are not found written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire Rev.20 v 15 which is the second death v 14.

Jesus says . . . fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell Mat.10 v 28.

Mal.4 v 3 further says : you (the righteous) shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this.

I know there are scriptures ref. to eternal hell-fire prepared for the devil and his angels, the beast and false prophet but this in no way says that wicked man will burn eternally - their part in it is to be burnt up by it, resulting in the above mentioned scriptures - ashes and dust as many other already mentioned scripts. verify.

By the way the beast is not a person but our humanly corrupt political systems and likewise the false prophet is our earthly false religious systems. It is those that are eternally kept from rising up again. But the people who subscribe to these systems instead of Gods ways will burn up if they don't repent in time.

Beta

So it is not incorrect at all to say that you do believe that the incorrigible wicked will cease to exist that there "spirits" will not have eternal existence. Then if that be the case then it is not judging you to say that you do believe in the "annilation" of the wicked dead spirits and it is actully "correct" for me to say that as you have so said here in your post about your beliefs.

you say--their part in it is to be burnt up by it resulting in the above mentioned scriptures--ashes and dust.

So in other words in regards to the lake of fire in Revelation 20 those whose names are not found written in the book of life. those that are alive on earth then they will be taken "bodily" and thrown into the lake of fire meaning in "your" view their bodies will just become ashes and dust for us saints to walk on and they will at that time be poof and be no more forever vanished gone no eternal existance or nothing.

The thing with this is in Revelation 20 it says that the sea gave up the dead also those who had already died they don't have a body to be burnt up right cause they are already spirits without a body being already dead. But it says that all of them was thrown into the lake of fire the dead and those who "you say" were alive still with an earthly body whose name was not found.

So if in your thinking some of these people are alive and will be burnt to ashes and dust then it would in your thinking be equally true that you belief is the same things about the spirits of the wicked who already died without Christ. Their is no eternal punishment for their spirits as you think in your views because even spirits will also cease to exist just vanish or be burnt up as well like the body.

So both the bodies and spirits of the wicked in your view will both be burnt up annilated and vanished without a trace forever they just become mere ashes and dust

If this is incorrect about your views please tell me

OC