Gifts of the Holy Spirit

[Floatingaxe]

matthew:

I believe God is wanting you to release yourself into His hands, into His love for you. You are afraid of being embarrassed, by weeping or feeling like you are out of control..that is all based on feelings, too!

I also was afraid of "losing control: but when I realized that God is totally dependable, I was free to give over all aspects of myself, especially the control I have over my tongue and vocal chords--small organs of control--with marvelous results!

Speaking in tongues is a marvelous gift, that builds me up in my own faith, and furthers my intimacy with my heavenly Father. It is not based on feelings, as you have come to believe. I am a so-called "charismatic" and we believe that feelings are not dependable at all!

There is nothing in scripture whatsoever that tells us that the gifts of prophecy and/or tongues was useful for the writing of the Bible. It was for the building of the Church, which is still going on to this very day until the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. These things are spiritual tools and weapons for the saints, and as you have seen them utilized, then you know they exist today. You must settle now in your heart of hearts that what you ahve been taught is erroneous, or you must choose to continue to deny. I will pray for you, matthew. I appreciate your sensitivity to this subject, and that you are not resorting to rude commentary...

Blessings!

[Sherman]

Hey Matthew,

That was some experience that you had. I understand being afraid of the spiritual gifts. I too was very afraid; however perfect love casts out fear. And greater is He that is in you, than He that is in the world. I'll write more later when I can concerning how I received the BHS. It was a radical change for me too. I believed and had been taught all of my life Cessationist Theology. I believed that people that supposedly spoke in tongues were at best or at the least emotionally disturbed, but possibly were actually demonically oppressed. My church and almost everyone in my family believed this.

So when I initially started studying the BHS for myself and considering why the Charismatics and Pentecostals believed as they do, I became increasingly afraid. I was afraid to go past what I could logically understand and explain, and I was afraid of falling into error and possibly blaspheming the Holy Spirit. It was a very bid deal for me. If the BHS was for today, I wanted it with all of my heart. But if it wasn't, I would preach against it the rest of my life.

I studied the BHS intensely daily for 3 months and finally was brought to a crisis of faith in which I had to chose to trust in the Lord with all of my heart and not rely upon my own understanding. This was very hard for me to do because I had been taught all of my life to rely upon my understanding of the Word -- to live my live by my understanding of the Word (rules and principles). But the BHS was beyond my understanding, especially tongues; to speak gibberish, well that's just foolishness.

I too ran from a small prayer group once feeling scared spitless. I knew I wanted more of God, but this was way outside of my box of beliefs that I had been taught all of my life. But you know, I've come to understand that "faith" often goes beyond our abillity to reason. The crisis of faith is a very real part of growing in God.

I encourage you Matthew, "Trust in the Lord with all of your heart, and rely not upon your understanding. Acknowledge Him in all of your ways, and He will make your paths straight!" Hallelujah! I believe God has some awesome things for you and tremendous things He wants to do through you. And I believe that "He that has begun a great work in you will complete it."

Blessings,

Sherman

p.s. I'll share more later about my own experience. It changed my life forever (in a very positive way, I believe, closer to God, more filled with His grace, wisdom, love, joy, and peace.)

Edited March 6, 2007 by Sherman

[matthew4:4]

matthew:

I believe God is wanting you to release yourself into His hands, into His love for you. You are afraid of being embarrassed, by weeping or feeling like you are out of control..that is all based on feelings, too!

I also was afraid of "losing control: but when I realized that God is totally dependable, I was free to give over all aspects of myself, especially the control I have over my tongue and vocal chords--small organs of control--with marvelous results!

Speaking in tongues is a marvelous gift, that builds me up in my own faith, and furthers my intimacy with my heavenly Father. It is not based on feelings, as you have come to believe. I am a so-called "charismatic" and we believe that feelings are not dependable at all!

There is nothing in scripture whatsoever that tells us that the gifts of prophecy and/or tongues was useful for the writing of the Bible. It was for the building of the Church, which is still going on to this very day until the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. These things are spiritual tools and weapons for the saints, and as you have seen them utilized, then you know they exist today. You must settle now in your heart of hearts that what you ahve been taught is erroneous, or you must choose to continue to deny. I will pray for you, matthew. I appreciate your sensitivity to this subject, and that you are not resorting to rude commentary...

Blessings!

Thank you for your reply,

But firstly, I do feel God's love. I have since I truly asked him into my life. I dont need the gifts to feel his love. I love him and I know he loves me. Thats all I need. And, I dont believe that tongues is based on feelings but something coming from that persons mind. The mind is a very powerful thing. In fact did you know that there are different religions that also speak in tongues like charasmatics claim to do. Even some denomination of buddhism. Now if they speak in tongues did God give them the power to? This is confusing.

And there is evidence of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge(knowledge is not referring to intellect knowledge here) being used to write the bible. First of all what is the bible? It is the inspired word of God written through man. How did God tell these men what to write? Well, sometimes through direct verbal conversation, sometimes through prophecy, and sometimes through tongues. I will have to prepare more info on that for you in my next post.

Also, in the times when the disciples were using tongues and prophesying they would say to the people dont believe in what I say unless I confirm it with miracles like Jesus did. So, first they performed miracles an then began to minister and tell people what God was telling them. Do Charasmatics ever do that?

I believe the feeling from last night was nothing supernatural. I believe it was just a feeling of overwhelming. When you are with a decent sized group of people like that and everyone is thinking one way when you think the other way. Its a very awkard and weird situation. But I'm not going to completly close it out. I will be speaking with my charasmatic friend this weekend. But for now I will keep praying and trusting in the Lord's power. Your brother in Christ, matthew

Edited March 7, 2007 by matthew4:4

[Sherman]

My personal testimony of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit (BHS), a looog post, thanks for bearing with me.

Good morning Matthew,

I understand your fear, the fear of loosing control, the fear of being sucked into something demonic, the fear of looking foolish to others, the fear of not being true to God or yourself. I struggled with the same fear for about 3 months as I personally studied the BHS. All of my life I was taught Cessationist theology; I even studied it in undergraduate Bible school. When I was 24 I started visiting my aunt with the intention of helping her see that the church she was attending, a Pentecostal church, was teaching her error and she needed to come back to the church she was baptized in and I was raised in.

For several weeks I would visit her and study with her the word and clearly show her that tongues, prophecy, knowledge were not for today. Of course, I had been to Bible school and studied the Bible all of my life, so I knew the Word much better than she did. I was also pretty good at debating, so I could walk circles around her theologically. Boy was I prideful too. Anyhow, as I once again pointed to 1 Cor. 13.8, I remember her saying, "Sherman, I know that's what it says, but I saw a man's leg grow out. Marcus (her 8 year old son), come here and tell Sherman what you saw the other night." Marcus came into the kitchen where we were sitting and with big eyes said "I saw a man's leg grow out!" And then he went back to playing in the front room.

Long story short, we decided to visit each other's services. I went with her on Sunday morning and she went with me to Sunday night service. That morning was a real stretch for me, especially the music. My church didn't even have a piano; we sang accapella. They had a full blown band. The praise and worship was loud and intense. I sat there watching everything, taking it all in. After service I stood in the foyer watching everyone. These people were happy, and you could feel the love they had for one another.

Two scriptures kept ringing in my ears. "My true worshippers will worship me in spirit and in truth." And "you shall know them by the love they have for one another." At the time I equated

[Eliyahuw]

Demons are well known for imitating not only messengers of God but also gifts such as tounges. In fact, the Anti-christ will be doing all of these things, yet it isn't of God.

Very true, and you are implying that I am too stupid to know the difference. Thanks.

Actually no i never imply, if i thought you were, i would tell you.

[Floatingaxe]

It was a blessing to read your testimony, Sherman! Our God most definitely is an incredibly awesome God!

[Davve]

Giaour, not all gifts are as noticable as speaking in tongues. Some will come upon you when you most need them, some will always be there. As someone said earlier, those meant to serve will serve. Even glorifying God is using your gifts of praise and thankfulness. There are many types of blessings. Do not worry over these little things, everything you need will be provided. Everything you are meant to have, there is a purpose for it.

Tongues are WAY to over rated and the gifts are most definately not trophys to be mounted on my spiritual wall waiting there for me to choose the right weapon for battle, I do get weary of the Gift hunters.

You are so right in saying that "everything you need will be provided." and along with that, it will be provided when it is needed. After a while there is simply the knowing that what you need will be provided as you need it, it is the same as the confidence we have that prayers are being answered.

There are far to many wanting it all, and making sure their list of gifts are a little bit more complete.

Daave

[Floatingaxe]

Giaour, not all gifts are as noticable as speaking in tongues. Some will come upon you when you most need them, some will always be there. As someone said earlier, those meant to serve will serve. Even glorifying God is using your gifts of praise and thankfulness. There are many types of blessings. Do not worry over these little things, everything you need will be provided. Everything you are meant to have, there is a purpose for it.

Tongues are WAY to over rated and the gifts are most definately not trophys to be mounted on my spiritual wall waiting there for me to choose the right weapon for battle, I do get weary of the Gift hunters.

You are so right in saying that "everything you need will be provided." and along with that, it will be provided when it is needed. After a while there is simply the knowing that what you need will be provided as you need it, it is the same as the confidence we have that prayers are being answered.

There are far to many wanting it all, and making sure their list of gifts are a little bit more complete.

Daave

I agree it is not all about the gifts! But when we are sold out for God and want to give Him every part of us, He certainly does give us amazing blessings and abilities! Why? Because we are soldiers on a battlefield and we need to get the job done that we are called to do! We aren't supposed to just bask in the glory of the gifts...thinking of them as, you say,"trophies"... we are to use them to defeat the enemy and make disciples of the nations. Amen?

[Sherman]

Tongues are WAY to over rated and the gifts are most definately not trophys to be mounted on my spiritual wall waiting there for me to choose the right weapon for battle, I do get weary of the Gift hunters.

You are so right in saying that "everything you need will be provided." and along with that, it will be provided when it is needed. After a while there is simply the knowing that what you need will be provided as you need it, it is the same as the confidence we have that prayers are being answered.

There are far to many wanting it all, and making sure their list of gifts are a little bit more complete.

Daave

Good morning Davve,

"Tongues are WAY to over rated"; so you're saying that people or churches that emphasize tongues more than you do over-rate them? However, the Word says, "I wish you all spoke in tongues." And Paul goes on to say, "I thank God that I pray in tongues more than you all" and "Forbid not speaking in tongues." Tongues is a very powerful means of personal edification, of prayer and worship that transcends our limited natural understanding. It often lays a foundation for operating and growing in the other spiritual gifts. It is the one gift meant for personal edification. The others are primarily meant to bless others.

On the other hand, if you're saying that the few hyper-Pentecostal churches that say that one must speak in tongues in order to be saved, that they over-rate tongues, I agree.

Concerning "Gift Hunters" and "far to many wanting it all, and making sure their list of gifts are a little bit more complete." First of all, if I understand you correctly you're implying that the motive of their hearts are selfish in some way, but only God knows the hearts of individuals. Furthermore, Paul actually said, "Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts." In another place he says "fervently desire spiritual gifts," and even to "covet spiritual gifts." So it sounds to me like if we are pursuing love we'll also be seeking and even coveting spiritual gifts so that we can be more effective in our ministry to the Body of Christ. We need to encourage one another to use their spiritual gifts, and seek to grow in spiritual gifts so that we can together build the Kingdom of God. The more we love our brothers and sisters in Christ, the more we'll want to operate in the spiritual gifts so that we can be a blessing to them.

Concerning "everything you need will be provided" actually everything we need for life and godliness has been provided. It's our responsibility to be wise stewards of all that God has given us. One of the things we need to be wise stewards of and grow in is the spiritual gifts, just like we are to grow in our knowledge of the Word through diligent study.

We need to stir up, fan to flame the gifts in ourselves and in others! Like in the parable of the Talents, if we are wise with what God has given us, He'll give us more. On the other hand, if we allow fear and errant beliefs to keep us from operating in the spiritual gifts, we'll loose what we don't use.

I pray that all that read this post will "Pursue love and eageraly desire spiritual gifts."

Blessings,

Sherman

[Davve]

Brother Sherman,

I am sure you consider what I have to say as an irritant that borders on, if not considered, blasphemy. But I am quite familiar with 1Corinthians chapters 12, 13 and 14 and have studied them through many times as well as Acts 2, 10, 19 and Jude 20.

I would like us to be reminded that the same chapter in 1st Corinthians that contains the command,"...and forbid not to speak in tongues" and is championed as the battle cry of those sold on tongues as invalualble in the Christian experiece; forget that contained in the same chapter and in the same paragraph is the command:

" 34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

35. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Now all the sudden we have to start expaining why things are different now and that things have changed since this was first penned, when this is clearly a command.

Look, I have already gone the route of speaking in tongues more than ye all, I have have even taught it! I have spent hours upon hours in what is identified as self-edification going for months praying almost exclusively in tongues, I have experineced different dialects, I experieced what was idendified as the waters of the river of life and swam in it. I have prayed in tongues for hours on end in my car, at church, at home, why? Because it is the most efficient way to pray. It builds me up and the devil can't undersand what I am saying. It's the Holy Ghost that is praying and his prayers are always answered. Right? We are always to be waiting for the next word from or direction from God the Holy Ghost arn't we? Otherwise we will miss it and be in disobediance.

I traveled down all those roads and after some 25years of it, it all led me further and further from Jesus, not closer.

I'm so glad that I don't speak in tongues anymore or attend chruchs that do; I actually know how to pray now. I actually can trust God in every circumstance, I have seen the Holy Spirit move in the hearts of those I pray for as I never did when I was casting out devils and laying hold on the promises and standing on promises by saying them over and over and over. (That's faith you know)

Nope, tongues and I are done, and my desire is for Jesus alone. I'd rather have Jesus and trust him in everything and in that way have the Holy Ghost direct my desires.

Daave