Gifts of the Holy Spirit

[irishcowboy]

an illistration that might be helpful to those that are saved, but have not had the Holy Spirit fill them so as to not be able to totally contain Him....

take a drinking glass.... this will represent you......

turn on the kitchen faucet, the water running out represents the Holy Spirit, never ending (even thou we know that the water coming through the pipes would come to an end should the pumps that place it in the water tower should fail we will imagine that this could not happen)

now,

take the glass and just get a bit of the water in it from the faucet... this would actually represent a person prior to being saved, for the Spirit of God has to actually work in them first.....

as they grow they will receive more water, now, if they grow stagnant, they will not receive any more water, they are still saved (persea) but not growing, and as they move around the water will splash out of them...

now, set the glass in the sink under the running water, it will soon overflow... this would represent the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, the glass can not contain it any more.....

another way to look at it.....

take a balloon..... fill it up with water until it will not hold any more with out adding presure.....

empty the balloon, and refill it again and again and again.... still with no presure, the balloon will not hold anymore water then the first time....

now.....

add some presure to the balloon, adding more water then before.... and then let go, the water will squirt out, but the next time this is done, it will hold more water with out extra presure being added....

if we continue to add more water to the balloon, adding it under presure, the balloon will be a ble to hold more and more with no extra presure...... the balloon is growning, this should be the way we are... we can hold more of the Spirit, more of the Glory of God with out overflowing, with out bursting..... and it will take more of the Spirit coming upon us in order for us to have the "same"feeling as we did the first time He overcame us.....

we can stay "fully baptised" in the Holy Spirit should we continue to seek Him.... should we choose to....

there are many people that run as soon as some one starts speaking in an unknown language, or giving a prophecy.....

one lady i know, received the Gift of Tongues, and told the Lord she did not want that for she was scared of it, and she did not want that, she didnt like it.... since then she has had major health problems (that was a couple decades ago)....

Paul even told us to seek the Gifts, the greater gifts....

I do not use the Gifts of the Spirit to measure a persons maturity, and i do not totally agree with Tongues being the first one that is placed upon a person..... the Lord has worked through me several times in Healings before an interpreatation was ever given through me, for I was very skeptical, and still judge the message that is given.... the first time this happened, i received what i thought was just thoughts, but then after a message in tongues was given, there was an interpretation, and it matched perfectly what i had just received to be thought of as thoughts..... this happened several times before i had enough nerve to speak out, then it was confirmed by others..... i still have not recieved a public word in Tongues, have received a private with interpretation a couple times but not for public disemination.....word in Prophecy has been passed though me several times, healings still happen though me...... as well as other gifts working through me.....

I do not do a thing, but allow my mouth to open, or say what am told to say.... there is nothing about me in this, other then being obedient.... my wife writes down what i say, for most the time, i have no clue as to what i have said, just open my mouth and it pours out.

the first time I was "baptised" in the Holy Spirit, i was not seeking that at all, but was being obedient to the tug to go and pray for a person with a bad heart (1999).... I went up and stood behind this person, and laid my right hand on her left shoulder and that was the last thing i remember until i found myself sitting on the floor babbling words i have no idea what they were.... several things happened, the young ladies heart stopped giving her problems..... I received a partial healing, and had a new respect for the Holy Spirit.... oh yea, there was a couple of hours missing from my life, that i have no clue what happened during this time.

I am not even saying this is how it will be for anyone else, for the Lord will work through each of us in a different way.....

some will recieve the baptism of the Holy Spirit as soon as they accept the Lord, others will receive it during water baptism, some will receive it much later, and some may not ever experience it.... this is not saying some one is not growning in the Lord, or that the Holy Spirit is not upon them.... for the Holy Spirit is the one that does the drawing in.... we can not even lead some one to Christ until the Holy Spirit is involved.

mike

[asap]

Well, I must not have the Holy Spirit because I dont have any gifts.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

2 seperate issues- gifts and holy spirit

[irishcowboy]

The Gifts of the Spirit are for the Use in which the Spirit of God wishes,

the Gifts of the Spirit are for Edification, Exhaultation, and comfort. if they are not used for these purposes, they are being mis-used or abused. we are to Edify the the Body of Christ, Exhault The Lord above all, and comfort our bretheren....

not all will have all the Gifts at all the times..... the Spirit will give the Gift as He sees fit, one day a person may have the Faith..... i tend to call it more like a super faith, like that of Elijah when he stood before the 400 prophets of baal..... and the next day, they may be cowaring down in a cave hiding from some slime bag woman....

The Spirit may give a person the Gift of Interpretation one time, and this person may not interperate again for years if ever.... this is the Gift from the Spirit, the Holy Spirit...

Yes, some will retain a certain amount of the gifts for everyday use,

for instance.....

ALL BELIEVERS should have the power flowing throu them to lay on hands and heal the sick, but not all will have the Gift of Healing in which a limb or diget grows back over night or instantly.....

Praying in the Spirit is a wonderful thing.... this is a time when the person does not know what to pray for, so the Holy Spirit interceeds for them.....

isnt it wonderful that God even thought about small things like that, when we do not have anything we know to pray about, and wakes us up at 2 or 3 in the morning and says PRAY!!!!. and we have no clue as to why, what, who or where or any other detail, otehr then just pray......

God Is Good.....

mike

[Arthur Durnan]

All biblical languages - glossa - are known, understood, national & earthly dialects. This is clearly shown by the classic passage on "tongues" (or languages), namely Acts chapter 2 where all the LISTENERS to the disciples heard them speak in the listeners' OWN NATIONAL languages (Acts 2:8-11) where approx. ten specific language groups are actually named. The operative word loved by charismatics (with reckless abandon it seems), "unknown", doesn't appear anywhere in 1 Corinthians. Let us also understand that even ANGELS, when they spoke in Holy Scripture, always spoke in earthly languages known by the hearers, ie, Hebrew, Greek, etc. and NEVER in a "heavenly" language.

The charismatic tendency to emphasize what the Bible doesn't emphasize - ie, "heavenly gibberish" such as 'Ki ladia, spona, sa nania shuh ka lana moba deseen vi ladia so boda shan za she lava kadia nonamakia pico dada shan veria dada ko camana' has absolutely ZIP to do with BIBLICAL languages which are never "GIBBERISH" or "DIVINE MUMBO-JUMBO" (as from a little baby) but ALways known, understood, national & earthly dialects requiring perhaps an interpreter for any who may not understand that particular real, national, earthly language.

And, of course, what is so striking re the kind folk who emphasize "Heavenly Gibberish" is that they only emphasize TWO-THIRDS of the Acts 2 Pentecostal experience as seen in Acts 2:2...."clove tongues like as fire" and "the sound as of a mighty rushing wind".....are ALWAYS OMITTED in all their conversation! So where are those two OTHER imperative happenings? Seen by all! Each time today! Very interesting by its pure silence. And very telling too, yes?

And a Blessed Christmas to all on December 25 and all throughout 07 in Jesus' Holy Name!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Arthur Durnan]

"Sigh" back to you, my friend. Denunciation is not argument. As a Christian, I don't live and breathe according to experimentations or personal experiences as per Azusa 1900-years after the fact but only by the settled, authoritative Word. 1900-years until Azusa commenced "heavenly gibberish" says more about the kind Azusa folk than about the dictates of Holy Writ. Paul relates that "tongues" (better, languages) will "cease." The Greek is future passive and emphasizes the fact overlooked by Azusa, "cease in & of themselves." In our most emphatic opinion, 1900-years give the unqualified assent to the Apostle's declaration. Further, Azusa overlooked the biblical fact that "when that which is perfect is come" cannot refer to Jesus because it's a NEUTER word in Greek. Jesus is never referred to by a NEUTER word! OUr Lord is not a "that which is"! Such would be to bring into the text something totally foreign to its context. It doesn't read "when the coming has come." Incredible! There is no indication whatever in the context that it has reference to Christ's return. The CLASSIC Acts 2 passage wherein national, earthly, understood dialects are expressly recorded seems fine & dandy by charismatics re ONE aspect of languages, but not the OTHER TWO phenomena. Pick & choose only what rubs one the right way, yes? And too, of course, the pertinent point about "angelic language" being NON-existent in Holy Scripture, that is, they spoke earthly, understood languages, must surely drive another spike into the "divine mumbo-jumbo" world. Why retreat into studied ambiguity on the clear language of angels? Hmm.

[Floatingaxe]

"Sigh" back to you, my friend. Denunciation is not argument. As a Christian, I don't live and breathe according to experimentations or personal experiences as per Azusa 1900-years after the fact but only by the settled, authoritative Word. 1900-years until Azusa commenced "heavenly gibberish" says more about the kind Azusa folk than about the dictates of Holy Writ. Paul relates that "tongues" (better, languages) will "cease." The Greek is future passive and emphasizes the fact overlooked by Azusa, "cease in & of themselves." In our most emphatic opinion, 1900-years give the unqualified assent to the Apostle's declaration. Further, Azusa overlooked the biblical fact that "when that which is perfect is come" cannot refer to Jesus because it's a NEUTER word in Greek. Jesus is never referred to by a NEUTER word! OUr Lord is not a "that which is"! Such would be to bring into the text something totally foreign to its context. It doesn't read "when the coming has come." Incredible! There is no indication whatever in the context that it has reference to Christ's return. The CLASSIC Acts 2 passage wherein national, earthly, understood dialects are expressly recorded seems fine & dandy by charismatics re ONE aspect of languages, but not the OTHER TWO phenomena. Pick & choose only what rubs one the right way, yes? And too, of course, the pertinent point about "angelic language" being NON-existent in Holy Scripture, that is, they spoke earthly, understood languages, must surely drive another spike into the "divine mumbo-jumbo" world. Why retreat into studied ambiguity on the clear language of angels? Hmm.

Hmmmm indeed!

So if tongues ceased (future passive), where did the knowledge come from that you wrote that comment with?

I have to run for church for now, but I'll be happy to point out to you what 1 Corinthians 13 was talking about. I'll even go into the original language so as to leave out all arguments otherwise. And as for the rest of your claims... get for an education brother! You're going to be surprised how incorrect most of what you said really is!!! I usually let things like this blow past, but I found your finger in the chest comment about "divine mumbo-jumbo" quite offensive. We'll talk about this later though. You know, denying the works of the Holy Spirit and all that.

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;"

Since we know that all us Christians learn foreign languages after being baptized... Hmmmmm, on the other hand maybe he meant something else?

[Floatingaxe]

One, she is not supposed to speak in church, but ask her husband after the service and then it is about being orderly IAW scripture.

I wish you well in finding a church that is as misunderstanding of the Word of God as you seem to be by this miserable thought. All the Spirit-filled women I know who speak in tongues do so among other believers...why can't we speak? God holds us as equal before Him. No male, no female, no Jew, no Greek (Gentile). As He gifts us ALL, we are required to use these gifts!

[Floatingaxe]

Peter:

If all you are discussing here is the mandate that we keep order in the manifestations of the Holy Spirit in a church meeting, then OK. I do follow that. It looked a bit like it was going toward another issue. That reference to the woman talking out of turn was a red flag...never mentioned she was speaking out of turn.

Blessings!

[matthew4:4]

It looks like you guys are talking about something else right now but I just wanted to voice my opinion on the gifts of the spirit. This is a tough issue. My girlfriend believes there are gifts of the spirit but Im think there probably are not but I wont rule it out. Lets take a look at corinthians 13 again starting at verse 8 till the end. I believe the person who started the forum referenced this but didnt read through till the end. Love never fails. But where the are prophecies they will cease, where there are toungues they will be stilled, and where there is knowledge it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part but when perfection comes the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child but when I became a man I put my childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. (But I believe verse 13 at the end here is key) And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love. If it truly is referring to the 2nd coming of christ then why would the gifts of faith and hope remain. Faith is replaced with seeing and hope with realization.

Also, and I think someone already stated this but it is true that most people who claim to have the gifts of the spirit do not follow the rules set by Paul. Ive been to a few different gatherings where toungues and prophecy were used but the rules were not followed. random toungues spoken by many people at once. And most importantly NO INTERPRETER. I belive it is because there isnt anyone who can interpret. Someone can believe they are speaking in toungues even if they aren't but to believe you understood what the person said withought knowing for sure that the translation came from God and not your own mind is wrong. Also there was alot of Prophecy by one person with noone to weigh it carefully. And as far as prophecy goes we need to look at evidence meaning results of those who claim to prophecy. The bible says they need to be 100% not one false prophecy. Now, I dont know of or have ever heard of a prophet who was even close to 25%. If you do know one then tell me otherwise. I look at the reasons provided and believe it shows that there is more evidence that there no longer are gifts of the spirit. Please let me know if I am incorrect on what Ive provided. Thanks for listening and God bless you. Your brother in christ, Matthew

[Joshua-777]

It looks like you guys are talking about something else right now but I just wanted to voice my opinion on the gifts of the spirit. This is a tough issue. My girlfriend believes there are gifts of the spirit but Im think there probably are not but I wont rule it out. Lets take a look at corinthians 13 again starting at verse 8 till the end. I believe the person who started the forum referenced this but didnt read through till the end. Love never fails. But where the are prophecies they will cease, where there are toungues they will be stilled, and where there is knowledge it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part but when perfection comes the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child but when I became a man I put my childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. (But I believe verse 13 at the end here is key) And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love. If it truly is referring to the 2nd coming of christ then why would the gifts of faith and hope remain. Faith is replaced with seeing and hope with realization.

Also, and I think someone already stated this but it is true that most people who claim to have the gifts of the spirit do not follow the rules set by Paul. Ive been to a few different gatherings where toungues and prophecy were used but the rules were not followed. random toungues spoken by many people at once. And most importantly NO INTERPRETER. I belive it is because there isnt anyone who can interpret. Someone can believe they are speaking in toungues even if they aren't but to believe you understood what the person said withought knowing for sure that the translation came from God and not your own mind is wrong. Also there was alot of Prophecy by one person with noone to weigh it carefully. And as far as prophecy goes we need to look at evidence meaning results of those who claim to prophecy. The bible says they need to be 100% not one false prophecy. Now, I dont know of or have ever heard of a prophet who was even close to 25%. If you do know one then tell me otherwise. I look at the reasons provided and believe it shows that there is more evidence that there no longer are gifts of the spirit. Please let me know if I am incorrect on what Ive provided. Thanks for listening and God bless you. Your brother in christ, Matthew

Interesting view, on 1st corinthians 13, that is a common view for some denominations, me however I do believe in spiritual gifts, and to denie them would make me a liar. I believe that verse is refering to when we are made perfect in Christ, all spiritual gifts are used for edification, what need would we have for edification, if we are all made perfect, and there is no imperfection? I don't believe in modern day prophets, but I do believe in prophecy, and I do believe int he gift of prophecy, based on what I have witnessed, and experienced. I do however agree that paul talks strongly about order of spiritual gifts in the assembly, that is why it is important to study the word, I don't think paul was joking, and many denominations don't look at that. I do believe in the gift of interpritation, because prophecy toungues and interpritation is how I came to the Lord, I was in a fight with the Lord before I came to him, shouting question after question, I was drug to church the next day by my sister then a lady on the worship team spoke a prophecy in toungues, when it was interprited, the preacher changed his sermon, and answered every question I asked God int he order I asked, a week later while studying spiritual gifts I was given the gift of toungues, which I use it for self edification, Anyways God bless you, and keep strong in our Lord.