Gifts of the Holy Spirit

[matthew4:4]

It looks like you guys are talking about something else right now but I just wanted to voice my opinion on the gifts of the spirit. This is a tough issue. My girlfriend believes there are gifts of the spirit but Im think there probably are not but I wont rule it out. Lets take a look at corinthians 13 again starting at verse 8 till the end. I believe the person who started the forum referenced this but didnt read through till the end. Love never fails. But where the are prophecies they will cease, where there are toungues they will be stilled, and where there is knowledge it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part but when perfection comes the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child but when I became a man I put my childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. (But I believe verse 13 at the end here is key) And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love. If it truly is referring to the 2nd coming of christ then why would the gifts of faith and hope remain. Faith is replaced with seeing and hope with realization.

Also, and I think someone already stated this but it is true that most people who claim to have the gifts of the spirit do not follow the rules set by Paul. Ive been to a few different gatherings where toungues and prophecy were used but the rules were not followed. random toungues spoken by many people at once. And most importantly NO INTERPRETER. I belive it is because there isnt anyone who can interpret. Someone can believe they are speaking in toungues even if they aren't but to believe you understood what the person said withought knowing for sure that the translation came from God and not your own mind is wrong. Also there was alot of Prophecy by one person with noone to weigh it carefully. And as far as prophecy goes we need to look at evidence meaning results of those who claim to prophecy. The bible says they need to be 100% not one false prophecy. Now, I dont know of or have ever heard of a prophet who was even close to 25%. If you do know one then tell me otherwise. I look at the reasons provided and believe it shows that there is more evidence that there no longer are gifts of the spirit. Please let me know if I am incorrect on what Ive provided. Thanks for listening and God bless you. Your brother in christ, Matthew

Interesting view, on 1st corinthians 13, that is a common view for some denominations, me however I do believe in spiritual gifts, and to denie them would make me a liar. I believe that verse is refering to when we are made perfect in Christ, all spiritual gifts are used for edification, what need would we have for edification, if we are all made perfect, and there is no imperfection? I don't believe in modern day prophets, but I do believe in prophecy, and I do believe int he gift of prophecy, based on what I have witnessed, and experienced. I do however agree that paul talks strongly about order of spiritual gifts in the assembly, that is why it is important to study the word, I don't think paul was joking, and many denominations don't look at that. I do believe in the gift of interpritation, because prophecy toungues and interpritation is how I came to the Lord, I was in a fight with the Lord before I came to him, shouting question after question, I was drug to church the next day by my sister then a lady on the worship team spoke a prophecy in toungues, when it was interprited, the preacher changed his sermon, and answered every question I asked God int he order I asked, a week later while studying spiritual gifts I was given the gift of toungues, which I use it for self edification, Anyways God bless you, and keep strong in our Lord.

Hold on I dont understand. Whats the difference between modern day prophets and someone blessed with the gift of prophecy. There arent two types of prophecy, although I do believe there was two types of toungues. One being where someone spoke in their language but people who knew a different language understood them. The other is like you said used for edification in the church but it was also used to write parts of the bible. I believe the type of toungues paul spoke of was the one spoken to or from God. (I honestlly dont know if its to or from, you tell me) Because that is the kind that needs to be interprited. When God wants a french speaking person to understand an english speaking person he allows that person to use the gift of toungues so they can be understood. If you brought a translator along then whats the point in the gift of interpreting. Anyway, I think this part we agree on just let me know what your saying about prophecy. Also, just because you believe in it or use it doesnt mean your lying. I know people who honest to God believe they can speak in toungues. I believe they believe it. But I also believe it comes from the person's own imagination not God's words.

Now like I said I dont want to rule it out. I think maybe there is a possibility that the people I witnessed using the gifts really didnt have them. In fact the funny thing is two are woman pastors which if you read corinthians 14:33-35 its obvious that its not a woman's role to be a pastor. And I dont want to hear "oh its a cultural thing or woman were not regarded the same way" If someone wants to say that then maybe being baptized is just a cultural thing and I shouldnt follow that rule. Its there, its God's inspired word and I'm in no way a sexist but we just need to accept. But anyway one of the woman and man pastor both claim to have multiple gifts such as prophecy, toungues, visions from Jesus, and I think healing. Also being able to see angels. This to me crosses the line because paul tells us we are all one body in christ. One person will recieve the gift of prophecy, another toungues, etc. Basically, we all come together as a team. Well, I got off track a bit but Josh let me know where you agree and disagree and get back to me on the prophecy thing. God bless you and keep you. your brother in christ, matthew

Edited February 20, 2007 by matthew4:4

[matthew4:4]

Great post everyone! Wow, it shed lots of light on lots of questions I did not know the answers to. I won't say anything about this post, as I do not have a lot of knowledge about it yet (but will get there in time, one step at a time praise the Lord). All I can say is that I was being cornered in the chatroom the other day about my spiritual gifts and I couldn't answer the person back, which saddened me a lot. And it upset me a little since it came from a mod. Okay, I understand that we do not all share the same enthusiasm about spiritual gifts, but those who have gifts shouldn't be attacked by those who do not believe in gifts of the Spirit. But thanks once again for all the positive and encouraging answers. It helped me a lot.

God bless.

Gotta go and worship the King of kings in tongues now!

Esther

I dont understand. If you have the gift of tongues you should atleast be able to explain it to the person and tell them how it is. How can you not know much about it when you use it? You must have learned about it in order to ask for it. Tell me. Do you understand everything you are saying? And you also should know that its not in the scriptures that you need to worship the lord in tongues. There are many ways to worship him. Your brother in christ, matthew

[Floatingaxe]

Great post everyone! Wow, it shed lots of light on lots of questions I did not know the answers to. I won't say anything about this post, as I do not have a lot of knowledge about it yet (but will get there in time, one step at a time praise the Lord). All I can say is that I was being cornered in the chatroom the other day about my spiritual gifts and I couldn't answer the person back, which saddened me a lot. And it upset me a little since it came from a mod. Okay, I understand that we do not all share the same enthusiasm about spiritual gifts, but those who have gifts shouldn't be attacked by those who do not believe in gifts of the Spirit. But thanks once again for all the positive and encouraging answers. It helped me a lot.

God bless.

Gotta go and worship the King of kings in tongues now!

Esther

I dont understand. If you have the gift of tongues you should atleast be able to explain it to the person and tell them how it is. How can you not know much about it when you use it? You must have learned about it in order to ask for it. Tell me. Do you understand everything you are saying? And you also should know that its not in the scriptures that you need to worship the lord in tongues. There are many ways to worship him. Your brother in christ, matthew

You read about it matthew. Then come and tell us what you learned.

You don't have to be a scholar about it to be gifted in tongues. Children do it, and newcomers to Jesus get it. No one understand what they are actually speaking, as it is an angelic language. (I am talking about the gift of a prayer language.) when it is a public, ministry gift, where one has to exhort the congregation, then God will provide a translator, which is another gift.

No, we don't NEED to worship the Lord with tongues, but you know what? He loves it, and basks in it--as do we!

[matthew4:4]

Great post everyone! Wow, it shed lots of light on lots of questions I did not know the answers to. I won't say anything about this post, as I do not have a lot of knowledge about it yet (but will get there in time, one step at a time praise the Lord). All I can say is that I was being cornered in the chatroom the other day about my spiritual gifts and I couldn't answer the person back, which saddened me a lot. And it upset me a little since it came from a mod. Okay, I understand that we do not all share the same enthusiasm about spiritual gifts, but those who have gifts shouldn't be attacked by those who do not believe in gifts of the Spirit. But thanks once again for all the positive and encouraging answers. It helped me a lot.

God bless.

Gotta go and worship the King of kings in tongues now!

Esther

I dont understand. If you have the gift of tongues you should atleast be able to explain it to the person and tell them how it is. How can you not know much about it when you use it? You must have learned about it in order to ask for it. Tell me. Do you understand everything you are saying? And you also should know that its not in the scriptures that you need to worship the lord in tongues. There are many ways to worship him. Your brother in christ, matthew

First of all the person is a much more mature christian than what I am and do not believe in any kind of gifts from the Holy Spirit, so I left it alone. I did not need to learn about it, the Holy Spirit gave it to me as a gift. The gift of tongues was given to me while I was standing in my living room one day worshiping the Lord, so there wasn't even anyone around, it was just me and my Lord, I was singing the song "I exalt Thee" and the next moment I realised that I was singing it in tongues. You're right, I don't know much about it, except that I have it and that it's a love language between me and my Lord. As for what I am saying to the Lord is between me and the Holy Spirit, and my soul shall make its boast only in the Lord. I know it's not in the scriptures that you should worship the Lord in tongues, but some of us have a sense of humor around here, and I thought I'd end my post off with something that puts a smile on my face. And no, I'm not joking about my gift, the Lord also blessed me with a joyful spirit. I don't speak out loud in tongues and have never spoken in tongues in front of anyone before, since it's between me and the Lord when I am in prayer.

Lastly, I am not English so for me to make mistakes when trying to say something is human, so keep it in mind when reading my posts or replies in future.

Love in Christ

Esther

Ok, I'd be glad to read something about it. just give me a reference. And please when you are interpreting what corinthians 13 means please say this is what I believe. Its wrong to just assume your opinion is the right one. Now, when it says do not forbid tongues, I believe that they said that because even at that time some people thought it sounded crazy. He even says unbelievers would think it sounds crazy but dont condemn it. It does have any reference with today or after the new testament was completed. So that you would have to reject as evidence. Also, I believe that prophecy, tongues, and the gift of knowledge were gifts used to write the bible. Thats why they are no longer needed today. Thats why it only says those three cause the gift of healling cant be used to write it and other such gifts so why wouldnt he list all like he has before. Plus at the end it says, And now these three remain hope, faith, and love. So if it truly is speaking about the second coming then why would we still be given hope and faith? My last issue is, it says in various parts of the bible that the gift of tongues was used to edify the church. Correct? Where does it say anything about a prayer that you alone have with God? Its supposed to be used to edify you and the church. So, if your saying its your on type of prayer with God then shouldnt everyone recieve that gift? Does God not want to speak like this with me and others so much?

[Sherman]

Why would God give every one the gift of tongues when the bible is clear that different people have different gifts? Is every one called to be a pastor? Is every one called to be a teacher? I've never spoken in tongues publicily. I've been given the interpretation to a message twice, and believe me, it was the last thing I wanted to do, but it happened none-the-less. I didn't give the interpretation the first time, because I wasn't clear what was happening.

"Why would God give every one the gift of tongues?" Maybe because He just wants to, or maybe because He knows the power of the tongue. James talks about the tongue being a little but powerful member of the body; in fact it, the tongue, sets the course for our life like the rudder of a ship. If we in faith will submit our tongues to the Lord, then He can have a greater influence in the course of our lives. But regardless of why, the Word says, "I wish you all spoke in tongues and especially that you prophecy," and "Do not forbid speaking in tongues." Paul also says, "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all."

Concerning the difference between the private verses the public gift of speaking in tongues, scripturally every Christian should speak in tongues privately to build up yourself, but only some will be gifted in and use the public expression of tongues to build up the Body of Christ.

Spiritual Gifts is normative NT Christianity, anything less is disfunctional. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is so important that Jesus commanded the apostles to wait in Jerusalem until the were empowered by the Holy Spirit. The first Gentile converts were baptised in the Holy Spirit before Peter could even make an altar call. Though Philip had seen revival in Samaria and baptized many believers, Peter and John made a special trip to see that these new converts were also baptized in the Holy Spirit.

The Word says, "Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, and especially that you may prophecy." "Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order."

There was a man who had many children who went away on a long journey. When he left, he told his children to finish building the house that he had started. He had already laid the foundation, but much work still needed to be done. Before he left he gave his children a wide range of power tools, electric, cordless, and air powered drills, skill saws, screw drivers, concrete mixers, nail guns, etc., even a backhoe, every type of tool needed. All of his children could use all of the tools as needed, but he knew some were especially talented with various tools. A couple of his children could use almost all the tools very well. He expected the older ones to teach the younger ones, and the talented ones to teach and inspire the others.

After he left though, the children started squabbling over the tools. Some said they were the most important because they used the drills; but they didn't get much work done because they were too busy showing off "their" tool. Others said that the tools really shouldn't be used at all because someone might get hurt. They believed it was better to build the house using only hand tools that they could fully control. Others used the tools the best they could but also had to fight off the accusations of their brothers who thought evil of them. And only a few of them even had the concept that if they worked together they could get more work done in a far shorter amount of time.

All the while the Father was watching from hidden cameras anxiously waiting on his children to complete the house so that he could return home with the awesome gifts that he planned on giving to all his children, and especially awesome gifts for his children who were faithful to use every tool available and work as a team!

Edited February 22, 2007 by Sherman

[matthew4:4]

matthew4:4 wrote:

Ok, I'd be glad to read something about it. just give me a reference. And please when you are interpreting what corinthians 13 means please say this is what I believe. Its wrong to just assume your opinion is the right one. Now, when it says do not forbid tongues, I believe that they said that because even at that time some people thought it sounded crazy. He even says unbelievers would think it sounds crazy but dont condemn it. It does have any reference with today or after the new testament was completed. So that you would have to reject as evidence. Also, I believe that prophecy, tongues, and the gift of knowledge were gifts used to write the bible. Thats why they are no longer needed today. Thats why it only says those three cause the gift of healling cant be used to write it and other such gifts so why wouldnt he list all like he has before. Plus at the end it says, And now these three remain hope, faith, and love. So if it truly is speaking about the second coming then why would we still be given hope and faith? My last issue is, it says in various parts of the bible that the gift of tongues was used to edify the church. Correct? Where does it say anything about a prayer that you alone have with God? Its supposed to be used to edify you and the church. So, if your saying its your on type of prayer with God then shouldnt everyone recieve that gift? Does God not want to speak like this with me and others so much?

Why would God give every one the gift of tongues when the bible is clear that different people have different gifts? Is every one called to be a pastor? Is every one called to be a teacher? I've never spoken in tongues publicily. I've been given the interpretation to a message twice, and believe me, it was the last thing I wanted to do, but it happened none-the-less. I didn't give the interpretation the first time, because I wasn't clear what was happening.

Also, there are two different types of tongues, the public kind, which could be a known language, but unknown to you, or a 'new' language. The new language needs an interpreter. There is also what's known as a 'prayer language' between you and God. No interpreter is needed for this and this is usually done in private prayer times anyway.

Not everyone seeks this gift. Like Esther above, she said it just happened while she was in her living room singing a hymn, which I think is pretty cool. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is an awesome thing. It doesn't always mean that you will speak in tongues though. Some people think that tongues will cease on their own. Perhaps so, but I still see the gift in operation. It is not the gift's fault when it is mis-used.

You didnt listen to me. I wanted evidence of where it says that it is a personal prayer language between you and God. Show me scripture. I was saying that if it is like that it should be given to everyone. But its not like like that. It was used to edify the church and write the bible at the same time. I know the gifts were given to different people at God's choosing. Prophecy, tongues, and knowledge were tools used to write the bible. Knowledge is not talking about regular knowledge. It was like little bits and pieces of the bible that God would place inside their heads. Like a verse or two.

Also, let's take a break from tongues for a second. Paul says that prophecy is a lot more important. He'd rather you speak 5 words of prophecy than 10,000 in tongues. So, how come so many of you say you have the gift of tongues. Where are the prophets? And if you do claim to be a prophet then you have to be 100%. Correct me if I'm wrong but is there even one prophet today that is atleast 25% correct?

[Floatingaxe]

matthew4:4 wrote:

Ok, I'd be glad to read something about it. just give me a reference. And please when you are interpreting what corinthians 13 means please say this is what I believe. Its wrong to just assume your opinion is the right one. Now, when it says do not forbid tongues, I believe that they said that because even at that time some people thought it sounded crazy. He even says unbelievers would think it sounds crazy but dont condemn it. It does have any reference with today or after the new testament was completed. So that you would have to reject as evidence. Also, I believe that prophecy, tongues, and the gift of knowledge were gifts used to write the bible. Thats why they are no longer needed today. Thats why it only says those three cause the gift of healling cant be used to write it and other such gifts so why wouldnt he list all like he has before. Plus at the end it says, And now these three remain hope, faith, and love. So if it truly is speaking about the second coming then why would we still be given hope and faith? My last issue is, it says in various parts of the bible that the gift of tongues was used to edify the church. Correct? Where does it say anything about a prayer that you alone have with God? Its supposed to be used to edify you and the church. So, if your saying its your on type of prayer with God then shouldnt everyone recieve that gift? Does God not want to speak like this with me and others so much?

Why would God give every one the gift of tongues when the bible is clear that different people have different gifts? Is every one called to be a pastor? Is every one called to be a teacher? I've never spoken in tongues publicily. I've been given the interpretation to a message twice, and believe me, it was the last thing I wanted to do, but it happened none-the-less. I didn't give the interpretation the first time, because I wasn't clear what was happening.

Also, there are two different types of tongues, the public kind, which could be a known language, but unknown to you, or a 'new' language. The new language needs an interpreter. There is also what's known as a 'prayer language' between you and God. No interpreter is needed for this and this is usually done in private prayer times anyway.

Not everyone seeks this gift. Like Esther above, she said it just happened while she was in her living room singing a hymn, which I think is pretty cool. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is an awesome thing. It doesn't always mean that you will speak in tongues though. Some people think that tongues will cease on their own. Perhaps so, but I still see the gift in operation. It is not the gift's fault when it is mis-used.

You didnt listen to me. I wanted evidence of where it says that it is a personal prayer language between you and God. Show me scripture. I was saying that if it is like that it should be given to everyone. But its not like like that. It was used to edify the church and write the bible at the same time. I know the gifts were given to different people at God's choosing. Prophecy, tongues, and knowledge were tools used to write the bible. Knowledge is not talking about regular knowledge. It was like little bits and pieces of the bible that God would place inside their heads. Like a verse or two.

Also, let's take a break from tongues for a second. Paul says that prophecy is a lot more important. He'd rather you speak 5 words of prophecy than 10,000 in tongues. So, how come so many of you say you have the gift of tongues. Where are the prophets? And if you do claim to be a prophet then you have to be 100%. Correct me if I'm wrong but is there even one prophet today that is atleast 25% correct?

You are wrong about prophecy. Prophecy isn't merely prognosticating. That happens occasionally, but prophecy is expounding the Word of God in such a way as the heart receives assured truth--Rhema! Lightbulb moment!

So, as I speak in tongues to my Father God, as Paul says He did a lot, which is praying in the Spirit, with an angelic tongue (1 Corinthians 13:1), I also prophesy when I teach the Word of God and people are moved with truth. Many, many Christians prophesy, but don't realize they are doing it. Some posters here prophesy simply by explaining the truth of God's Word, causing a lightbulb to go on in someone's heart.

I think a little education on what the gifts of the Spirit really are is in order, rather than coming in here with your guns blazing with all presupposed ideas and no actual knowledge of the subject. Be teachable, sir.

[Joshua-777]

Hold on I dont understand. Whats the difference between modern day prophets and someone blessed with the gift of prophecy. There arent two types of prophecy, although I do believe there was two types of toungues. One being where someone spoke in their language but people who knew a different language understood them. The other is like you said used for edification in the church but it was also used to write parts of the bible. I believe the type of toungues paul spoke of was the one spoken to or from God. (I honestlly dont know if its to or from, you tell me) Because that is the kind that needs to be interprited. When God wants a french speaking person to understand an english speaking person he allows that person to use the gift of toungues so they can be understood. If you brought a translator along then whats the point in the gift of interpreting. Anyway, I think this part we agree on just let me know what your saying about prophecy. Also, just because you believe in it or use it doesnt mean your lying. I know people who honest to God believe they can speak in toungues. I believe they believe it. But I also believe it comes from the person's own imagination not God's words.

Ok, what I meant by modern day prophets, meaning, that the bible is written, and thats it, no more is going to be added to it, I think I could have worded that better though, I was thinking on the lines of many cults that have started such as mormonism, where Joseph smith claimed to be a prophet, and adding things to the bible, and changing things, the word of God is written and sealed. The actualy have done a cat scan on someone speaking in toungues, int he devotional prayer language sence, whats interesting is that they couldnt find it connected to a part of speach. as far as the differences, I tried to adress this issue in the pm I sent you, best advice, 1st corinth 14 explains alot, also pray for understanding about it.

Now like I said I dont want to rule it out. I think maybe there is a possibility that the people I witnessed using the gifts really didnt have them. In fact the funny thing is two are woman pastors which if you read corinthians 14:33-35 its obvious that its not a woman's role to be a pastor. And I dont want to hear "oh its a cultural thing or woman were not regarded the same way" If someone wants to say that then maybe being baptized is just a cultural thing and I shouldnt follow that rule. Its there, its God's inspired word and I'm in no way a sexist but we just need to accept. But anyway one of the woman and man pastor both claim to have multiple gifts such as prophecy, toungues, visions from Jesus, and I think healing. Also being able to see angels. This to me crosses the line because paul tells us we are all one body in christ. One person will recieve the gift of prophecy, another toungues, etc. Basically, we all come together as a team. Well, I got off track a bit but Josh let me know where you agree and disagree and get back to me on the prophecy thing. God bless you and keep you. your brother in christ, matthew

lol Not stepping into the woman preacher thing again, I do believe that a woman and man pastor can have multiple gifts, I do believe many can have multiple gifts, and I don't believe that a woman who is a pasture can't be a woman of God, I believe God is in all and uses all, I do believe how ever that woman shouldn't be pastors, but who am I to question the woman pastors heart, and I agree with you on 1st corinth 12, we all come together as one body, yes, but that still doesn't limit each member of the body to one gift, the Holy Spirit gives gifts as he wills. I do believe that some do fake the gift of toungues, I have witnessed that before.

God bless you brother, and I hope my answers are clear. Pray for discernment, because I myself am human, wisdom and knowledge comes from God.

[Karen C.]

lol Not stepping into the woman preacher thing again, I do believe that a woman and man pastor can have multiple gifts, I do believe many can have multiple gifts, and I don't believe that a woman who is a pasture can't be a woman of God, I believe God is in all and uses all, I do believe how ever that woman can't be pastors, but who am I to question the woman pastors heart.....

You did not go there!!!

Need a V8 moment I would think!?!?

Rev Karen C

[Joshua-777]

lol Not stepping into the woman preacher thing again, I do believe that a woman and man pastor can have multiple gifts, I do believe many can have multiple gifts, and I don't believe that a woman who is a pasture can't be a woman of God, I believe God is in all and uses all, I do believe how ever that woman can't be pastors, but who am I to question the woman pastors heart.....

You did not go there!!!

Need a V8 moment I would think!?!?

Rev Karen C

Mabie I should re-word it to shouldn't, I do however believe that God can use what ever he wishes, and can place who ever he wants, he has the authroity, on this matter, I try to stay out of.