The stone that the builders rejected..

[Adstar]

Bill posted this link in the Masons welcome here thread.  (page 3)

He wants an opinion.  No one has responded to it yet.

NIV calls Lucifer Jesus

About half way down it gets to the capstone - corner stone part.

whatsitmean

Looked at the site and had a read. I have braught up this same issue on at least 2 occasions on this board about the NIV calling satan and Jesus the same. That is blasphemy. I did not realize they also called Jesus the capstone instead of the cornerstone thanks whatsitmean

Matthew 21 NIV

42Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures:

" 'The stone the builders rejected

has become the capstone ;

the Lord has done this,

and it is marvelous in our eyes' ?

Matthew 21 NKJV

42Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures:

"The stone which the builders rejected

Has become the chief cornerstone.

This was the LORD's doing,

And it is marvelous in our eyes'?

I sourced this from gospel.com bible search engine.

Angels did you use a NIV translation ?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Guest davey]

Greetings in Christ Jesus,

Adstar, allow me to offer help on that point you bring up about the NIV. It's going to require some deeper Bible study on your part though. But it's not that difficult to grasp if ones goes carefully.

THE RIDDLE:

Here's the KJV version about "Lucifer":

Isa 14:12-13

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:"

(KJV)

That word "Lucifer" originally came from the Latin. The KJV translators used that instead of the phrase "O day starre", which they put in the side margin of Isa.14:12 (See original 1st Edition 1611 King James Version Bible).

That answers 'how' the word "Lucifer" got there in the KJV. The true Hebrew word that is in the Manuscripts the KJV translators used is 'heylel', which does mean "morning star". Again, the KJV translators have a margin note on that verse in the original KJV, as "O day starre". That shows the KJV translators were a bit confused themselves on how that could be, and decided not to use "O day starre" in their translation. But to be fair, they let the reader know what they did with leaving it in the side margin.

The answer is very simple, once the flow of the Chapter is followed, along with other Scripture examples of this Isaiah 14 (see also Ezekiel 28 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).

Per Revelation 22:16 we definitely know that our Lord Jesus Christ is The Morning Star (also see Rev.2:28; Luke 1:78; 2 Peter 1:19 for more).

Because of that declaration of Jesus being The Morning Star, the KJV translators also must have got confused, and probably asked themselves how that 'heylel' ('morning star') could ever refer to the devil there in Isaiah 14:12, since it means "morning star" in the Hebrew. So obviously, they took an old pagan Latin name for the devil (ie., 'Lucifer'), and substituted it there in the KJV of that verse. Otherwise, a big CONFLICT would occur with our Lord Jesus being Named The Bright and Morning Star in Rev.22:16.

The NIV, which I do not use, does have the Hebrew translation of Isaiah 14:12 to "morning star", and it is correct per the Hebrew. But I can't help but think that the NIV translators actually wanted the confusion to remain. The KJV translators at least showed us that they couldn't quite come to putting "morning star" in place of "Lucifer". So to be sure believers got God's Message of Satan wanting to be The Morning Star Jesus Christ, they chose the old pagan Latin name of "Lucifer" and put it there in Isa.14:12, which anyone living around 1611 who could read would easily grasp God's Message of warning to not be deceived by a false messiah (Satan) claiming to be The Christ.

THE ANSWER:

Satan, "that old serpent", the "devil", the "dragon", etc., is absolutely not... the TRUE "morning star", period. But... Satan definitely wants to be. That's the solution, and that's the key to the riddle of why the Isaiah 14:12 verse says what it does.

A look into the Greek of Rev.6 about that king who comes on a white horse reveals the start of Rev.6 is speaking about a false one, and not our Lord Jesus Christ. Rev.19 is the true example of our Lord Jesus coming upon a white horse. So Satan will come riding upon a symbolic 'white horse' also? Yes.

The deeper mystery is that Satan wants to be GOD, Which includes our Lord Jesus Christ in The Godhead also. Satan also comes upon a white horse like Jesus will, Satan also has his own 'sword', which is a sword of lies, while our Lord Christ's Sword is one which cuts both ways. In other words, Satan tries to mimic our Lord Jesus in any way he can. Per the last verse of Isaiah 30, God said that "Tophet" (symbol for the "lake of fire") is ordained of old "yea, for the king it is prepared". That means the fake king Satan, for he wants to be our True KING Jesus Christ. That is how... Satan originally fell in rebellion against GOD in that time of old (see Ezekiel 28 as a metaphor about Satan). And that's the main Message of those Isaiah 14 verses about Satan who wants everyone to think he is the "morning star".

So what God is showing us in the Isaiah 14 example about Satan, is a mocking towards that wicked one, even using his own words against him. It's as if God is saying to Satan, "So, The great morning star as king says he's going to ascend up to Heaven, and exalt his throne above the stars of God...!" Our Heavenly Father is mocking him, turning Satan's mimicry against him. That is the same Message our LORD gave in the Ezekiel 28 example also. And the apostle Paul also revealed the same Message in 2 Thessalonians 2, about that Wicked who will come first, sitting in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God (2 Thess.2:3-4). The 2 Thessalonians 2 example is for OUR TIMES, before Christ Jesus returns.

The bottom line of our LORD's Message within that Isa.14:12 verse of Satan being called the "morning star", means don't be deceived by a false one who comes claiming to be The True Morning Star Jesus Christ. Understand the

[tsth]

Don't overlook the intent and meaning in the use of the word "builders" in the passage........although the word "capstone" is addressed, there is significant meaning in why the word "builders" was used. Don't dismiss the message there, as it is significant in teaching too. It reveals the falsehood and denial of the church/body in light of the Truth.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Adstar]

Hello Davey

You are free to believe what you want to believe. I am convicted of another truth though. I believe that the USA was set up by servants of lucifer to be the throne of the antichrist on earth. I hasten to add that I do not believe their desire will be achieved I believe the antichrist will have his throne elsewhere and the USA will serve Him as a sacrifice in flames.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[angels4u]

Adstar,

I do agree with you, that it is the goal of the U.S.A to get all the power over the world and they don't mind how they get it so long they do get it.(Was this war with Iraq part of their program to keep everything in controle so they wouldn't lose out on anything?)

It all started from the beginning with free mason teaching and that is Satanic, I also agee with you that the throne of the Antichrist will NOT be in the U.S.A. and that something will happen to bring them down.

I do believe Europe will absolutely get the world power and they might have their offices in Iraq where I believe the Antichrist will settle and set up his throne.

Also my daughter is using the NIV, my Bible is the NKJ,she came up with this question and my Bible talks also about the capstone.

I thought Susaane had a very good point with letting us pay attention to the builders

It reveals the falsehood and denial of the church/body in light of the Truth

[Adstar]

Hi Angels4u

I used to think that the USA would be the throne but at the present time I think Europe will be his power base. I do not think that the theme town built by sadam called babylon will be the A/C,s throne I suppose its just a part of the big mirrors and tricks show built to add a bit more confusion into the mix.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[angels4u]

Hi Adstar,

You are problaly right, we can't name any place because we just don't know, and you are right its part of the big picture, evil is all around us and to be honest, we live in a house with teenagers, iand ts not always easy to controle the TV, there is hardly anything on what is worth watching exept "I love Raymond " of course

Evil is lurking at us at any place its just all around us, but I'm glad I have somebody who is stronger then all the powers in the world.

Where do you find a place that is Holy these days" I think its on your knees!!

Waiting for that blessed day! , Angels

:a2:

[Adstar]

TV, there is hardly anything on what is worth watching exept "I love Raymond " of course 

Where do you find a place that is Holy these days" I think its on your knees!!

Well the closest place to holy these days for me is when I am in deep though on the Word Of God.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[His son]

I do agree with you, that it is the goal of the U.S.A to get all the power over the world and they don't mind how they get it so long they do get it.(Was this war with Iraq part of their program to keep everything in controle so they wouldn't lose out on anything?)

I've got some bad news for you folks, It was God who set up and formed the USA, which means you are preaching false doctrine, and it is very obvious that you know nothing of it's history. I don't care what you think personaly but without knowledge it is all foolishness. Don't know what countries you are from but I'll bet somewhere in it's history they were very thankful for the USA. Just like every nation it has it's communist group who are out to bring it under one world government, but you are way out of line to proclaim as fact a total lie. If that had been true it would have been a piece of cake after that bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. So I would suggest you get an education on matters before you start posting them as fact.

[Guest davey]

Absolutely "His son"; I'm not willing to be outspoken, but I'm new here, so it really doesn't matter if I'm given a voice or not. I don't care to be a pleaser of men, which is how the false doctrine that the U.S. is the "great Satan" has been planted in many deceived believer's minds. So this is for them.

My grandfathers fought with the American founders during the American Revolution, and later during the American Civil War, and my father fought for the good ole' U.S. of A. in WWII, and I served also during the Vietnam War.

And to see a bunch of spoiled sniblings portray the United States of America like what one would flush down a toilet is a disgrace upon God's Blessings to those deceived who live in the U.S. and reap a portion of His Blessings upon His People of the "house of Israel" (ten tribes), which migrated to Europe and the Americas to found a resting place for His scattered People again.

And for the Biblically illiterate sniblings who listen to the 'pleasers of men', gainsayers and soothsayers, instead of getting into God's Word for theirselves to know Who founded the U.S.A., and all the Western Christian nations, the "ten tribes" of Israel are NOT Jews! Judah is only ONE tribe of Israel (see 1 Kings 11 through 2 Kings 17, if you dare). There was 12 last time I counted, and with Ephraim and Manasseh taking Joseph's place, that added one more, to 13!

And since such sniblings would rather listen to the 'traditions of men' instead of God's Word in understanding, those rightly deserve to be default aligned with the socialists and communists who are out to destroy all the western Christian nations! That's right, the Soviet plan for a one world socialist state is the gist of what the 'political correctness' doctrines are about. It's sad that many really believe communism is dead, when the signs of it are spread throughout all nations now, including ours, and among SOME of our high leaders in American; but not ALL of our leaders are on the United Nations globalist one-world boat.

Wake up!... whoever will listen. When east and west Germany were joined, and the Berlin Wall came tumbling down, it was part of a long-range Soviet plan. ("a socialist Europe from the Atlantic to the Urals" is what one Soviet defector of the 1960's said, and even gave warning that the Soviets might allow the Berlin Wall to come down if it meant easing Europe in the socialist state they wanted, and the man gave that warning a year before it actually occured - Anatoliy Golitsyn in "New Lies For Old"). The joining of eastern German communism with west German 'unionism' only created a socialist European power to fight against Great Britain and any other remaining loyal western Christian nation. World communism is of course attacking Great Britain in force also.

Who in the world is providing the Islamic terrorists with weapons against the West? Wake up! It's Soviet Russia and Red China! Is the World Bank and United Nations also part of that? Yes, of course! But it's the People of America which is the True Government of The United States of America, not any false one who claims to represent the American people (and some of our Representatives truly do try to represent us; support those).

But there definitely is one major group which does NOT represent the American People, and that is the national media who foster such lies against this Country and many of its good leaders! The American media machine is the REAL communist propaganda tool among us today. And the wolves in sheep's clothing, disguised as Ministers that preach hatred toward the U.S. are there to help them!

In Christ,

Davey.