Democrats want to raise the minimum wage

[Hypathia]

I don't know about you, I own a small business. Most High School kids that I have employed lately and helped to employ. Are happy to make $10.00 an hour. That's a low minimum for babysitting around here, per hour.

Where do you live? You can hardly find a full time job around here that pays $10.00 unless its either a plant job or a 4 year degree involved. Almost everything is $7-$8 around here. For my last $10.00/hr job basicly expected me to be on call 24/7, and i was on permanent night shift.

So if you start people $10.00/hr to babysit, then by all means where do you live? I'll come babysit and clean house any day.

Exactly. We're middle class and we're getting squeezed. I quit my six day a week, $20 an hour job 5 yrs ago (I had to drive almost 50 mi one way for that job) to stay home with the baby. You sure can't get $10 an hour here where I live and I'm gonna have to go back to work. I checked and babysitting would cost me $300 a month plus gas, plus the $80 a month I pay for my little one to go to Christian pre-school. I'm thinking of applying at Red Lobster (only a 35 mi one way drive) just to get some tips, and I've got a college education and an excellent work record! Let's see, $380 a month right off the bat plus gas. I'd have to get a whole lot of tips just to cover the cost of working as a waitress. In the meantime the bills just keep adding up.

I'm far from being a fan of Chavez. But, I'm American, not Venezuelian. If I was one of those Venezuelians living in a cardboard shack or in a nicer one with some tin nailed to the 2 x 4s with packed dirt for a floor I probably would have voted for Chevez (he was elected by vote); I might see him as a "Robin Hood". Guess you'd have to walk a mile in their shoes (or in their bare feet) to see why they voted that guy in and I hope I'm never that bad off.

Here in America, I'm against a return to the good ole days of the "robber barons" where there was the super-rich and everybody else. That's what I see happening, realistically speaking.

I'm a little tired of hearing the excuse of "redistributing wealth". I see the wealth of the middle class being redistributed to those at the top who are already rich. I mean really, why does a CEO require literally MILLIONS of dollars in salary and bonus/severence packages. Some of them have bankrupted their own companies which leaves the workers high and dry while the CEO goes on his merry way to the carribbean or where ever; when we're lucky jail. Yeah there's a lot of wealth being redistributed UP....not down. The middle class makes too much to get any help but not enough to accumulate enough to send their kids to college or cover unexpected medical expenses and certainly not enough to qualify for all those tax breaks that the ultra rich qualify for.

Edited December 19, 2006 by Hypathia

[Guest LadyC]

i understand how difficult it is for small business owners to pay a decent wage. but i find it even more difficult to understand how ANY one, whether it's a politician or a small business owner, can think that the minimum wage can support another human being.

the first job i ever had was when i was sixteen years old... i'm 42 now. the minimum wage when i started working was either 3.15 or 3.75 per hour (i think it went up to 3.75 during my first year of employment).

today, some two and a half decades later, the minimum wage is only 5.15 per hour. it's not enough! even with a two income family, if both parents make a minimum wage, they can't support a home, car, gas, insurance, and utilities without government assistant. but guess what? if both people work at that wage, they earn too much for government assistance.

paying employees is part of the necessary expenses of running a business, unless it's family owned and operated without additional employees. while i empathize with small business owners, i empathize more with the families that can't find work paying a better wage with insurance benefits. the only people who should be forced to work for 5.15 per hour are high school students living at home who have no real responsibilities in life.

[forrestkc]

forrestkc,

Your arguments pull at the heartstrings. Are you a politician?

Seriously, I guess we will always be at odds with this discussion. I do not believe in exploiting anybody, young, old, or incompetent. We do not live in Untopia; therefore there will always be a segment of the population that is poor, uneducated, etc. Mandating what one business pays its employees is not the answer. Redistributing wealth is not the answer. "Leveling the playing field" is not the answer. Equal access to opportunities is. And that is what America is about. Every citizen has equal access to health and education, etc. It is up to them to access what is available. With that, nobody has to remain in an entry level, low skill, minimum wage job.

I suspect that we are not going to agree, but don't for a moment think that I am advocating some form of Scandinavian Style Socialism either. I am pretty much an advocate of market economics and of free trade. I just don't think that every single social program is a bad thing, nor do I think that total unmitigated capitalism is a good thing either. I think the mix we have while not perfect, is better than any of the alternatives being promoted by ideologues on the left and right. Pragmatism is the answer. I would like for the world to be such that everyone could simply take care of their every need on there own, but even in our country the median household income is just 44k a year. That means that half of all American households are out there trying to get by on less than 44k a year. None of us live in a vacuum. None of us do everything on our own. As JFK said, a rising tide lifts all boats and in this country we do have a responsibility to each other as well as ourselves. I dont want to live in a country where half the society can just sit around and live off the government, but I also dont want to live in a society where children are forced to beg on the streets like some scene out of sub-saharan Africa either. I mean can you imagine this country without Medicare? Where seniors were forced to shell out for private sector insurance? What do you think the rate would be absent Medicare for basic hospitalization alone on a 70 year old man? I would wage at least 2000 dollars a month. I am a perfectly healthy 30 year old who doesnt smoke, and I am runner, and if I were not covered by the company I worked for and had to go out and get insurance on my own, it would run at least 400 a month. Absent Medicare, the vast majority of seniors could simply not afford any healthcoverage. Is that the kind of country we want to live in? I might add that Medicare operates with just a 3% overhead, the private sector health insurance industry averages about 15%.

So no, not every progressive idea has been bad. Many have actually done a lot of good. So while minimum wage laws may not be a benefit to the economy, their is no evidence to suggest they hurt the economy either. What is important is that they send a moral signal. That in this country, the richest country in the history of civilization, we have a minimum value to labor. For 68 years, that principle has served this country well, and I would suspect that it will continue to do so for another 68 years.

[kat8585]

i understand how difficult it is for small business owners to pay a decent wage. but i find it even more difficult to understand how ANY one, whether it's a politician or a small business owner, can think that the minimum wage can support another human being.

paying employees is part of the necessary expenses of running a business, unless it's family owned and operated without additional employees. while i empathize with small business owners, i empathize more with the families that can't find work paying a better wage with insurance benefits. the only people who should be forced to work for 5.15 per hour are high school students living at home who have no real responsibilities in life.

Exactly. But the point is, it's not benefitting anyone, because then people have to raise their prices, and the costs are passed down to us, EVERYONE, including the ones who got the minimum wage increased. So how is anyone ahead? Small business owners may only be able to hire one person instead of 2 (I speak from experience), so fewer people can even get a job. Tell me how this benefits anyone.

[JustinM]

quote matthitjah: "I made under $3.00 an hour when I first started working as a teen. I have heard the same argument for over two decades. It does not make any sense. If $2.50 an hour wasn't a living wage when I earned it as a teen. Why is $7.00 an hour acceptable now? Relatively speaking it is about the same buying power. Yet the populists carry on with the same logic."

You make my point for me, what if the Government hadn't stepped in and minimum wage was still at $2.50/hr.? Someone would have to work 20 hrs just to pay for a tank of gas. Come on, now can't you see that raising the minimum wage is the right thing to do and at the right time? Our unemployment is lower than ever and our economy is stronger than it has ever been. Let's give the backbone of our society a break and give them a little more money. They deserve it.

[kat8585]

Here is an interesting article on this topic.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...A_BIZ/612170301

[Arthur Durnan]

UltraLibDems like Reid, Durbin, Shumer et al quite evidently don't care all that much for business owners who have to keep shelling out......until their enterprises go kaput. Sometimes I truly wonder if many - or any - Democrats have business acumen to any degree. Socialists all, one fears. Bring everyone DOWN to the same low level. That's not America. That's Cuba!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[JustinM]

Most companies are reputable and pay their employees above the minimum wage rate. But, there are companies out there that do not and those companies are the reason why the government needs to step in and make new rules of engagement. Minimum wage is in no way controlling the way companies do business, it's just defining the value of the individual working for those companies, something which some companies are incapable of doing themselves.

[kat8585]

UltraLibDems like Reid, Durbin, Shumer et al quite evidently don't care all that much for business owners who have to keep shelling out......until their enterprises go kaput. Sometimes I truly wonder if many - or any - Democrats have business acumen to any degree. Socialists all, one fears. Bring everyone DOWN to the same low level. That's not America. That's Cuba!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

They are for equal opportunity misery like good socialists.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

You make my point for me, what if the Government hadn't stepped in and minimum wage was still at $2.50/hr.? Someone would have to work 20 hrs just to pay for a tank of gas. Come on, now can't you see that raising the minimum wage is the right thing to do and at the right time? Our unemployment is lower than ever and our economy is stronger than it has ever been. Let's give the backbone of our society a break and give them a little more money. They deserve it.

Bless you brother Justin,

You still didn't answer the question.

If $7.00 an hour is not enough, why not $10.00 or maybe $20.00 an hour?

Bless you brother Wade,

I live in Suburban MD outside of D.C.

If you do not get an appointment a couple of weeks in advance and offer at least $10.00 an hour you will not have a babysitter around here for a Saturday night. Some charge more.

Secondly if you aren't offering at least $10.00 an hour here for Employment for menial jobs, I'm not talking Retail, you will not find Good help.

Move East young man.

Peace,

Dave