A homosexuality thread

[WillingToDie]

I've been over this ad nauseum, not necessarily here, but elsewhere, and as such, I don't feel like getting into this, particularly since I'm in the minority here, but I suppose I should.

There are several lines of argument against using the Levitical texts to argue against homosexuality, I won't go into them, mainly because i don't particularly feel like it right now, but I will if I must. Regarding the New Testament, Paul's writings are less than clear as to homosexuality be a sin in of itself, and again, I don't feel like going in to this, because like I said, I've argued ad nauseum, with no side getting anywhere.

The bottom line is this: While I don't believe homosexuality to clearly defined in the bible, God's plan was set out as one man and one woman. Take that as you will.

[ted]

I've been over this ad nauseum, not necessarily here, but elsewhere, and as such, I don't feel like getting into this, particularly since I'm in the minority here, but I suppose I should.

There are several lines of argument against using the Levitical texts to argue against homosexuality, I won't go into them, mainly because i don't particularly feel like it right now, but I will if I must. Regarding the New Testament, Paul's writings are less than clear as to homosexuality be a sin in of itself, and again, I don't feel like going in to this, because like I said, I've argued ad nauseum, with no side getting anywhere.

The bottom line is this: While I don't believe homosexuality to clearly defined in the bible, God's plan was set out as one man and one woman. Take that as you will.

My friend, I suggest that you click on Emily's link above. I think it's very clear from Paul's writings that it is sin.

t.

[kat8585]

What I don't understand is that it seems to have such a powerful hold on people that even those who WANT to get out and are trying and praying usually aren't successful. We hear success stories, but rarely. Even in the ministries created for this, we hear of numerous failures. It seems to be the most powerful vice grip Satan can keep people in.

[kittylover0991]

What I don't understand is that it seems to have such a powerful hold on people that even those who WANT to get out and are trying and praying usually aren't successful. We hear success stories, but rarely. Even in the ministries created for this, we hear of numerous failures. It seems to be the most powerful vice grip Satan can keep people in.

Well, any sin can be extremely addictive... sin is basically binding... as with smoking and drinking, sexual sins are extremely hard to break .... homosexuality I guess, is a lifestyle that someone chooses for whatever reason.. and despite the reason.. it is still a sin and has to be broken..

Another possible reason for the lack of "success stories" is that many churches cradle people in their sins... that could be a small part of it...

Although we are free from sin, it is temptation to go back to sins.. a constant struggle.... God has the answer...

Crystal

[Guest liarsandmartyrs]

O.K let's start with

Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankinde, as with womankinde: it is abomination. KJV 1611

Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lye with mankynde as with womankynde, for it is abhomination. Bishops 1568

Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with ye male as one lieth with a woman: for it is abomination. Geneva 1587

No matter how you look at it or what version you are reading out of they all say the same thing.

The literal translation of the Hebrew would read as follows.

And with a male you shall not lay [as the] lyings of a woman, it is a detesable act.

compare this with Lev. 20:13

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as hee lyeth with a woman, both of them haue committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shalbe vpon them. KJV 1611

The literal Hebrew would read.

If a man lay with a man [as the] lyings of a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves.

God, according to scripture, does not call it a sin. He calls it an abomination.

Biblical definition of Abomination

ABOMINA'TION, n.

1. Extreme hatred; detestation.

2. The object of detestation, a common signification in scripture.

The way of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord. Prov 15.

3. Hence, defilement, pollution, in a physical sense, or evil doctrines and practices, which are moral defilements, idols and idolatry, are called abominations. The Jews were an abomination to the Egyptians; and the sacred animals of the Egyptians were an abomination to the Jews.

Now on to what Paul say

Rom 1:26 For this cause God gaue them vp vnto vile affections: for euen their women did change the naturall vse into that which is against nature:

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leauing the naturall vse of the woman, burned in their lust one towards another, men with men working that which is vnseemely, and receiuing in themselues that recompense of their errour which was meet. KJV 1611

Rom 1:26 Wherefore God gaue them vp vnto shamefull lustes: For euen their women dyd chaunge the naturall vse, into that which is agaynst nature.

Rom 1:27 And likewise also, the men left the naturall vse of the woman, and brent in their lustes one with another, and men with men wrought fylthynesse, and receaued to them selues the rewarde of their errour (as it was accordyng)

Bishops 1568

Filthy

FILTH'Y, a.

1. Dirty; foul; unclean; nasty.

2. Polluted; defiled by sinful practices; morally impure.

Literal Greek

For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions, for their females exchanged the natural function for that which is contrary to nature, likewise so also the males abandoning the natural function of the female, burned with intense desire for oneanother, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Paul on the other hand says that this is a shameless act. So lets look at shame and shameless

Shame

SHAME, n.

1. A painful sensation excited by a consciousness of guilt, or of having done something which injures reputation; or by of that which nature nature or modesty prompts us to conceal. Shame is particularly excited by the disclosure of actions which, in the view of men, are mean and degrading. Hence it it is often or always manifested by a downcast look or by blushes, called confusion of face.

2. The cause or reason of shame; that which brings reproach, and degrades a person in the estimation of others. Thus an idol is called a shame.

3. Reproach; ignominy; derision; contempt.

4. The parts which modesty requires to be covered.

5. Dishonor; disgrace.

SHAME, v.t.

1. To make ashamed; to excite a consciousness of guilt or of doing something derogatory to reputation; to cause to blush.

2. To disgrace.

3. To mock at.

Shameless

SHA'MELESS, a. [shame and less.]

1. Destitute of shame; wanting modesty; impudent; brazen-faced; immodest; audacious; insensible to disgrace.

2. Done without shame; indicating want of shame; as a shameless denial of truth.

With these definitions it would also be clear that God is not only upset because of the homosexual act, but is upset because His creation has no care for themselves. They are shameless, God calls us to be holy because He is holy, yet some have defiled themselves, and have not even thought twice about the ramification of what that is doing to themselves, physically, mentally and spiritual, even more what there acts have done to God.

Now the reason as to why the turn about rate of homosexuals back to straight is that

1. over 90% of all gay men and women have become gay due to sexual abuse.

It is not a hard thing to figure out as to why some people are gay. If you have been abused by a person of the opposite sex, you do not want to be with the opposite sex. In men, most they were abused by men, and have connected sexual relationships with men to the love that they have been looknig for in their family lives with their fathers. They have exchanged what should be a healthy love for an unhealthy love all based on confusion.

And

2. To many "Christians" beat just anyone over the head and shoulders with the bible, but the pulverize gays with the family bible. thats the big one on the bookshlef, that weighs about 20 lbs, and do not realize that you can preach the gospel to gays with love. In a way that you nor they feel attacked or uncomfortable.

And if the next time you are preaching Christ or preaching on the dangers of homosexuality, please do it with love, and you hear that gays are born that way. DO NOT ARGUE that they are not. Simply respond, "You are right, they are born that way, just like you, me and every man, woman, and child are born with the desire to go against what God has stated is not good for us. You are correct, they are born that way, just as every personon the face of the earth is born withthe seed of sinin them. You are absolutely correct, that they are born that way."

Peace of Christ be upon you.

[Adarian]

liarsandmartyrs: Thankyou for putting paid to that. Excellent post.

The scripture is and always has been clear, but the way of man is to deny guilt while engaged in the act of sin.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

Now the reason as to why the turn about rate of homosexuals back to straight is that

1. over 90% of all gay men and women have become gay due to sexual abuse.

It is not a hard thing to figure out as to why some people are gay. If you have been abused by a person of the opposite sex, you do not want to be with the opposite sex. In men, most they were abused by men, and have connected sexual relationships with men to the love that they have been looknig for in their family lives with their fathers. They have exchanged what should be a healthy love for an unhealthy love all based on confusion.

And

2. To many "Christians" beat just anyone over the head and shoulders with the bible, but the pulverize gays with the family bible. thats the big one on the bookshlef, that weighs about 20 lbs, and do not realize that you can preach the gospel to gays with love. In a way that you nor they feel attacked or uncomfortable.

Absolutely great post!

But,

Can you please tell me where you found these statistics?

[yomotalking]

Of course homosexuality is wrong, it's not the way things should be, but I agree, it's not right to lambast ppl who are gay......I try to imagine how they would feel if I were gay, and if someone bashed ME over the head with a Bible.......it's not nice.....

I'd feel more obliged to change my thinking if ppl were kind and loving and present the Gospel in a loving manner.......

[Arthur Durnan]

Gee whiz, the Holy Bible could not be MORE explicit re the sin of homosexuality. Why all the waffling at times? God never made two men to procreate or to shack-up. If one takes Scripture seriously (Genesis 19:5; Leviticus 18:22; Deuteronomy 22:5; Romans 1:24-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9,10; 1 Timothy 1:10; Jude 1:7), homosexuality is not an option open to Christians. The FACT is that in Leviticus, Romans, 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy, homosexuality is mentioned IN THE CONTEXT OF SEXUAL & IMMORAL BEHAVIOR! The context is quite clear in every instance - a variety of behaviors are prohibited: homsexuality, along with adultery, fornication and idolatry, is one them. The Holy Bible repeatedly warns against it & condemns it outright. Let us NEVER interpret Holy Writ in the light of my proclivity. Always interpret my proclivity in the light of Holy Writ. Nuff said. One mo' time I've off to Starbucks for a quad venti latte. Whatever floats one's boat, yes? Oh, and a Merry Christmas to one and all on the 25th and all year long! Joy to the world, the Lord has come!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[ted]

And if the next time you are preaching Christ or preaching on the dangers of homosexuality, please do it with love, and you hear that gays are born that way. DO NOT ARGUE that they are not. Simply respond, "You are right, they are born that way, just like you, me and every man, woman, and child are born with the desire to go against what God has stated is not good for us. You are correct, they are born that way, just as every personon the face of the earth is born withthe seed of sinin them. You are absolutely correct, that they are born that way."

Excellent point!

t.