what happens to the wicked?

[TomPJr]

If the righteous go directly to heaven when they die, where do the wicked go?

Do they go directly to hell?

and if so, why the resurection of the wicked?

They go where the dead without Christ go...to Hades, Sheol. The resurrection of the wicked is for the purpose to stand physically before God and take His judgment. You can't stand before the Holy God and live without having an imperishable body!

Amen to that axe

Now to the question.......do they go straight to hell? Well let's see what Jesus says about that.

Luke 16:19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

Well it looks like Jesus says that they go straight there after death.

Praise God let's try to snatched as many as we can from the fire!

It looks like that at first glance....so many people quote that. IT'S JUST A PARABLE used to illustrate that the begger will inherit the kingdom of God and the selfish rich man is condemed.

If you compare this to the rest of the bible, it becomes obvious that it is not literal.

It's just like when God told Cain that Ables blood cried out. His blood did not really cry out. This was one of the common uses of personification.

[AnotherTraveler]

It looks like that at first glance....so many people quote that. IT'S JUST A PARABLE used to illustrate that the begger will inherit the kingdom of God and the selfish rich man is condemed.

How many parables did Jesus NAME someone specifically in?

Why use a person's name if this was just a story situation?

[gypc]

If the righteous go directly to heaven when they die, where do the wicked go?

Do they go directly to hell?

and if so, why the resurection of the wicked?

They go where the dead without Christ go...to Hades, Sheol. The resurrection of the wicked is for the purpose to stand physically before God and take His judgment. You can't stand before the Holy God and live without having an imperishable body!

Amen to that axe

Now to the question.......do they go straight to hell? Well let's see what Jesus says about that.

Luke 16:19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

Well it looks like Jesus says that they go straight there after death.

Praise God let's try to snatched as many as we can from the fire!

It looks like that at first glance....so many people quote that. IT'S JUST A PARABLE used to illustrate that the begger will inherit the kingdom of God and the selfish rich man is condemed.

If you compare this to the rest of the bible, it becomes obvious that it is not literal.

It's just like when God told Cain that Ables blood cried out. His blood did not really cry out. This was one of the common uses of personification.

I've heard that before and no this is not a parable, it is a true story. Here's how we know.........when Jesus says a parable, he says this is like that.......ya know "the kingdom of heaven is like. However here he says "there was a rich man".....Question....was there a rich man who had a begger at his gate? Well, if there wasn't then Jesus lied and we know that he can't lie so it's a true story. Ya can't get around it........no matter what. Also he is giving an historical account of an event that happened. If we took that logic then we could say that the flood didn't happen, David wasn't real, Abraham was made up and all these are just made up stories to teach us how to live. We know that isn't the case.

[AnotherTraveler]

However here he says "there was a rich man".....Question....was there a rich man who had a begger at his gate? Well, if there wasn't then Jesus lied and we know that he can't lie so it's a true story. Ya can't get around it........no matter what.

Good Point

[EricH]

If the righteous go directly to heaven when they die, where do the wicked go?

Do they go directly to hell?

and if so, why the resurection of the wicked?

They go where the dead without Christ go...to Hades, Sheol. The resurrection of the wicked is for the purpose to stand physically before God and take His judgment. You can't stand before the Holy God and live without having an imperishable body!

Amen to that axe

Now to the question.......do they go straight to hell? Well let's see what Jesus says about that.

Luke 16:19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

Well it looks like Jesus says that they go straight there after death.

Praise God let's try to snatched as many as we can from the fire!

It looks like that at first glance....so many people quote that. IT'S JUST A PARABLE used to illustrate that the begger will inherit the kingdom of God and the selfish rich man is condemed.

If you compare this to the rest of the bible, it becomes obvious that it is not literal.

It's just like when God told Cain that Ables blood cried out. His blood did not really cry out. This was one of the common uses of personification.

It seems like you want it both ways. In some cases you want to take the text at its "clear meaning". In others it seems like you want to deny it, because it does not agree with what you have said earlier. You want to be selective in your use of metaphors. (for example you deny sleep is a metaphor)

The Bible does not teach the doctrine of soul sleep:

1. Believers go immediately into God's presence upon death

- Paul indicated during his life that his preference was to be away from the body and at home with the Lord

yet we are confident and satisfied to be out of the body and at home with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:8 CSB

- Paul indicated that dieing was gain to him because he would be with Christ

I am pressured by both. I have the desire to depart and be with Christ-- which is far better--

Philippians 1:23 CSB

- Jesus promised the repentent thief on the cross that once he died, he would be with Jesus that very day in paradise

And He said to him, "I assure you: Today you will be with Me in paradise."

Luke 23:43 CSB

- The writer of Hebrews indicates that when we worship God in truth, they are not only in the presence of God, but also in the presence of the spirits of those who have died already

Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God (the heavenly Jerusalem), to myriads of angels in festive gathering, to the assembly of the firstborn whose names have been written in heaven, to God who is the judge of all, to the spirits of righteous people made perfect,

Hebrews 12:22-23 CSB

2. The primary support for the doctrine of soul sleep rests in passages that deescribe death as sleep (Matthew 9:24; 27:52; John 11:11; Acts 7:60; 13:36; 1 Cor 15:6 etc.) Also there are certain passages that seem to teach that the dead do not have conscious experiences (Psalm 6:5; 115:17).

- Many of the passages above are quoted out of context. For example when we look at Psalm 115:17 verse 18 is frequently ignored:

The heavens are the LORD's, but the earth He has given to the human race. It is not the dead who praise the LORD, nor any of those descending into the silence of death. But we will praise the LORD, both now and forever. Hallelujah!

Psalm 155:16-18 CSB

The passages above clearly describe 2 realms (the earthly and the heavenly. When a person dies, they lose the ability to praise God on earth. But verse 18 makes it clear that we who know God will praise him forever, both on earth and in heaven.

- The passages that describe death as sleep use the term metaphorically. The question needs to be asked, "What does the figure represent?" It is my contention that the metaphor of sleep is used to describe the temporality of death. Just like those who sleep on this earth, do not sleep forever, death cannot permanently claim a believer. This is clearly seen in John 11:11:

He said this, and then He told them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I'm on My way to wake him up."

John 11:11 CSB

Jesus describes the death of Lazarus as sleep. Notice Jesus does not say that Lazarus' soul is asleep (nor does any passage in the bible state this explicitly). Sleep is simply a metaphor to describe the temporality of death.

3. There are descriptions on the Bible of people who have died doing things in heaven

- In Hebrews 12:1 wea re said to be surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses. This comes after Hebrews 11 which describes the saints of the OT who died in their faith. They are now our wintesses.

- In Revelation 6:9-11 and 7:9-10 there are clearly souls of those who have died crying for God's vengance.

4. Those who hold to sould sleep deny that parable of Lazarus teaches anything about the destiny of people after they die. They say it is only a story designed to demonstrate the seriousness of death.

The problem wih this view is that they have Jesus telling a story that uses something that He knows is the opposite of the truth to make a point. All of Jesus other parables did not do this. Jesus never told a stroy about a hateful God to make a point. We are supposed to believe here that Jesus uses something that was theologically inaccurate, and could be easily misunderstood to make a point. It just does not wash

[TomPJr]

It looks like that at first glance....so many people quote that. IT'S JUST A PARABLE used to illustrate that the begger will inherit the kingdom of God and the selfish rich man is condemed.

How many parables did Jesus NAME someone specifically in?

Why use a person's name if this was just a story situation?

Why do we use peoples names in stories, or in jokes?

you are making speculations about his choice to use someones name, and about how he began his parable.

[AnotherTraveler]

Why do we use peoples names in stories, or in jokes?

you are making speculations about his choice to use someones name, and about how he began his parable.

Fine, I made speculations in answer to your speculations, so what? Why is it that you have to dance around any legitimate question?

It's just like when God told Cain that Ables blood cried out. His blood did not really cry out. This was one of the common uses of personification.

Yea, and the donkey did not really speak, nor did the serpent in the garden, oh, yea, and whats with the woman from the rib bit?

When you are done picking out the parts you don't like, what is left? Why not leave the bible intact?

[TomPJr]

Why do we use peoples names in stories, or in jokes?

you are making speculations about his choice to use someones name, and about how he began his parable.

Fine, I made speculations in answer to your speculations, so what? Why is it that you have to dance around any legitimate question?

It's just like when God told Cain that Ables blood cried out. His blood did not really cry out. This was one of the common uses of personification.

Yea, and the donkey did not really speak, nor did the serpent in the garden, oh, yea, and whats with the woman from the rib bit?

When you are done picking out the parts you don't like, what is left? Why not leave the bible intact?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by dancing around....

I do believe the donkey spoke, and the serpent spoke, and woman was taken from man as it says.

[Arthur Durnan]

The fires of Gehenna will burn eternally. We were given a brief illustration back in Daniel's day re the fiery furnance...continual burning, no desecration. If Jesus spoke to hell, hades, or gehenna ten times for every one time He discussed heaven, shouldn't that tend to weigh heavily on one's determination to MISS the former? And why strive to MISS it if it borders on peaches and cream, or as false cults contend doesn't even exist? Revelation 20:11-15 assures us it's a horrendous thing to fall into the hands of the Living God"! Jesus Christ offers heaven. GO for it! Check John 5:24 - and LIVE!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[TomPJr]

Why do we use peoples names in stories, or in jokes?

you are making speculations about his choice to use someones name, and about how he began his parable.

Fine, I made speculations in answer to your speculations, so what? Why is it that you have to dance around any legitimate question?

It's just like when God told Cain that Ables blood cried out. His blood did not really cry out. This was one of the common uses of personification.

Yea, and the donkey did not really speak, nor did the serpent in the garden, oh, yea, and whats with the woman from the rib bit?

When you are done picking out the parts you don't like, what is left? Why not leave the bible intact?

This is my second response to this post...

I think you are taking out the parts you don't like...

like where the bible says that the wicked will perish. and that they will be destroyed, and that they will be as the chaff on the threshing floor....(the chaff gets burned up)

The bible says that "God is long suffering, not willing that any should perish" (perish means to utterly be destroyed. Out of existance. That is a Great and Merciful God!)

Why do so many insist that God will burn and torture people endlessly throughout eternity? If you do an indepth study, you will conclude that forever doesn't always mean forever in the bible. We are stuck on what the term means to us. Well that's not what it meant back then. It meant as long as an age would last.

The effects of the punishment last forever, endlessly. Not the punishing. NOTE: It is called everlasting punishment, not punishing.

If you want to believe in a God that would be so mean, then go for it. I know that the real God of Heaven is all powerful and able to do that, but his love and mercy would never let him.