Paul's Christianity

[Yahsway]

Correction from previous post oops, sorry

Paul did not have to be an eyewitness to anything.

[artsylady]

So Paul was knowingly borrowing a portion of the old testament to perpetrate a lie?

Or, as you had also argued, is it that Paul beleived so strongly in heaven and that's why he was willingly imprisoned and then willingly killed.

So which is it?

Both can't be true. People don't willingly go to their deaths for what they know is a lie.

[systemstrike_7]

Many have died in for different beliefs other than Christianity. Does this make those religions true? That is a horrible way to prove your point.

On the other point, I am very confused as to the debate between mask and yahsway.

Aren't they on a team here?

[Masked Chris]

Masked Chris, why are you arguing with me. I AM a believer in Yeshua and am simply trying to get system strike to understand that. He said that Paul was "Unaware that Jesus was actually on earth" and I questioned that if you read my post correctly. Sheesh, also, Pauls teacher was aware that Jesus had lived and died, thats the point I was making to system.

Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles. He knew Yeshua, but not just from the Damascus road experience. He knew the Torah and Tanakh better than anyone. That was my point to system strike. Paul quotes from the Old Test because thats what pointed to Yeshua. And also, if you will read a lot of the quotes he makes from the Old Test, there are many that were also quoted by Yeshua himself.

Now read what Paul says here and understand.

Romans 15:15

Nevertheless, brethren, I have written more boldly to you on some points, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God, that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, MINISTERING THE GOSPEL OF GOD, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, I, Paul, have reason to glory in Christ Jesus in the THINGS WHICH PERTAIN TO GOD. (Not that he, Paul had to be an eyewitness to anything, understand?)

(now here is the verse for system strike

For I, Paul, will NOT DARE to speak of any of those things which Christ has not accomplished THROUGH ME, in word and deed, to make the Gentiles obediant-

Paul doesnt see the need to expound on Jesus virgin birth, his raising Lazerus from the dead, ect.. He is only going to speak about those things which Christ has accomplished in and thru him. He doesnt say these things did not happen, he simply wants to expound his personal testimony.

verse 20-

And so I have made it my aim to preach the gospel, NOT where Christ was named, lest I should build on another mans foundation, but as it is written,

To whom He was not announced, they shall SEE; And to those who have NOT HEARD shall understand.

ok... seems I got a little fired up and jumpped ahead. I'm sorry. Please remember that fourms aren't an easy way to comminacate... I simply misunderstood

Edited January 31, 2007 by Masked Chris

[Masked Chris]

Many have died in for different beliefs other than Christianity. Does this make those religions true? That is a horrible way to prove your point.

I actully agree here. to use this to prove the truth of something would be to reserect Hitlers beleif in the supremacy of Nazism

[systemstrike_7]

Ohh, you misunderstood. I got really confused there. I didn't know who to reply to...

[systemstrike_7]

Masked Chris, why are you arguing with me. I AM a believer in Yeshua and am simply trying to get system strike to understand that. He said that Paul was "Unaware that Jesus was actually on earth" and I questioned that if you read my post correctly. Sheesh, also, Pauls teacher was aware that Jesus had lived and died, thats the point I was making to system.

Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles. He knew Yeshua, but not just from the Damascus road experience. He knew the Torah and Tanakh better than anyone. That was my point to system strike. Paul quotes from the Old Test because thats what pointed to Yeshua. And also, if you will read a lot of the quotes he makes from the Old Test, there are many that were also quoted by Yeshua himself.

Now read what Paul says here and understand.

Romans 15:15

Nevertheless, brethren, I have written more boldly to you on some points, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God, that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, MINISTERING THE GOSPEL OF GOD, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, I, Paul, have reason to glory in Christ Jesus in the THINGS WHICH PERTAIN TO GOD. (Not that he, Paul had to be an eyewitness to anything, understand?)

(now here is the verse for system strike

For I, Paul, will NOT DARE to speak of any of those things which Christ has not accomplished THROUGH ME, in word and deed, to make the Gentiles obediant-

Paul doesnt see the need to expound on Jesus virgin birth, his raising Lazerus from the dead, ect.. He is only going to speak about those things which Christ has accomplished in and thru him. He doesnt say these things did not happen, he simply wants to expound his personal testimony.

verse 20-

And so I have made it my aim to preach the gospel, NOT where Christ was named, lest I should build on another mans foundation, but as it is written,

To whom He was not announced, they shall SEE; And to those who have NOT HEARD shall understand.

Yes, Paul does seem to point alot of attention to himself, but the main question was never answered. Paul might not have wanted to expound on the miracles of Jesus, but why does he never use them? They would prove to be beneficial to the point he is trying to make in certain sermons. You can beat around the bush all you want, but your logic doesn't stand. Throughout all the epistles, did Paul really try to not mention anything from Christ's life? Was this intended? That is very hard to believe...

[Yahsway]

system, we do not know that Paul did not expound on Jesus miriacles, for he could have done that thru oral tradition, he simply does not put Jesus miracles in His letters to the assemblies.

The part of Jesus LIFE that Paul was expounding on though was Jesus Life from the dead, and that He is alive forever, and that Jesus was/is the only way to have eternal life.

But saying all this, Jesus himself was the one who commanded Paul to preach the gospel and this is what Jesus told paul-

Acts 26: 15-

"So I (Paul) said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for THIS PURPOSE, to make you a minister and a witness BOTH OF THE THINGS WHICH YOU HAVE SEEN (not what someone else saw) AND OF THE THINGS WHICH I Will Yet reveal to you.

This is what Yeshua/Jesus commanded Paul to do. To be a witness of the things He personally had seen and what would be revealed to him by Jesus.

Yeshua did not tell Paul to go and tell the people of all the miracles that he did while on the earth. So this is probably why we do not read about it in Pauls letters. But like I said, we dont know for sure that it wasn't orally spoken of between Paul and others. Shalom

[artsylady]

I asked:

So Paul was knowingly borrowing a portion of the old testament to perpetrate a lie?

Or, as you had also argued, is it that Paul beleived so strongly in heaven and that's why he was willingly imprisoned and then willingly killed.

So which is it?

Both can't be true. People don't willingly go to their deaths for what they know is a lie.

Many have died in for different beliefs other than Christianity. Does this make those religions true? That is a horrible way to prove your point.

You haven't answered my question at all. Do you think you're being honest here, even with yourself?

On the other point, I am very confused as to the debate between mask and yahsway.

Aren't they on a team here?

I haven't got time to read all of the threads, but I was very confused when I read your response to Timbo. Did you read his thread?

I feel like this conversation is all about you talking and not listening whatsoever.

[systemstrike_7]

I asked:

So Paul was knowingly borrowing a portion of the old testament to perpetrate a lie?

Or, as you had also argued, is it that Paul beleived so strongly in heaven and that's why he was willingly imprisoned and then willingly killed.

So which is it?

Both can't be true. People don't willingly go to their deaths for what they know is a lie.

Many have died in for different beliefs other than Christianity. Does this make those religions true? That is a horrible way to prove your point.

You haven't answered my question at all. Do you think you're being honest here, even with yourself?

On the other point, I am very confused as to the debate between mask and yahsway.

Aren't they on a team here?

I haven't got time to read all of the threads, but I was very confused when I read your response to Timbo. Did you read his thread?

I feel like this conversation is all about you talking and not listening whatsoever.

I'm terribly sorry if it comes out that way. Let me clear up your above statement.

Paul was a Jew. He persecuted this Christ religion. Well, he saw a vision and converted. He decided it was his job to preach to the gentiles. He probably didn't invent this theology, just expounded on it. He would take old testament stories and turn them modern. I just can't get over the fact that he NEVER mentions anything about Jesus' life. NEVER. Does this not seem a bit odd? I mean, believe it or don't but it is still weird!