Paul's Christianity

[artsylady]

would argue that the gospel authors used Pauls teaching of this Holy Jesus figure and made a story of it.

What was their motive? And why would they die for the belief if they themselves knew they were merely 'making things up'?

But what if the historical Jesus was lost in these mythologies? What if Jesus was really a Jew, who never claimed to be God? What if Jesus merely said that we must all be sons of God?(I'm just using an example here). This all seems very likely. Very likely

So you think it's likely that Jesus was just a regular guy who never did anything outstanding except maybe preach about the same God that previous writers through centuries wrote about? He never performed a single miracle, never died, was never resurrected. If this is the case, then we do have a huge conspiracy and a very elaborate hoax, dont we? Honetly. This would be the biggest conspiracy that ever shrouded man-kind, would it not? I'm just asking because in another thread you state it wasn't a conspiracy at all.

[systemstrike_7]

What was their motive? And why would they die for the belief if they themselves knew they were merely 'making things up'?

They did believe in Jesus, but they made a story of Him because for one, there wasn't one, and second, they were merely using this as allegory. They only wanted to teach a lesson.

So you think it's likely that Jesus was just a regular guy who never did anything outstanding except maybe preach about the same God that previous writers through centuries wrote about? He never performed a single miracle, never died, was never resurrected. If this is the case, then we do have a huge conspiracy and a very elaborate hoax, dont we? Honetly. This would be the biggest conspiracy that ever shrouded man-kind, would it not? I'm just asking because in another thread you state it wasn't a conspiracy at all.

I think Jesus was a genius who had great insight into the Tanakh and who have great moral ideas. I think that no one has surpassed him in genius and that he was a good soul. Jesus probably was crucified because he was seen as an agitator, and probably didn't agree with the Pharisees of the time. I think the only reason it seems to be a conspiracy is because we made it look as such. We forgot that Jesus was a God-fearing Jew who stayed loyal to Yahweh alone. I don't think he ever meant to usurp Yahweh and would be sick that we turned him into a deity. Christians have completely forgotten who God the Father is. He has turned into nothing but a spirit that lingers in the shadow of Christ the Son. Jesus is now an American protestant. He is no longer Jewish, He is no longer God-fearing, He is no longer human. He is merely a new god.

[Joshua-777]

What was their motive? And why would they die for the belief if they themselves knew they were merely 'making things up'?

They did believe in Jesus, but they made a story of Him because for one, there wasn't one, and second, they were merely using this as allegory. They only wanted to teach a lesson.

So you think it's likely that Jesus was just a regular guy who never did anything outstanding except maybe preach about the same God that previous writers through centuries wrote about? He never performed a single miracle, never died, was never resurrected. If this is the case, then we do have a huge conspiracy and a very elaborate hoax, dont we? Honetly. This would be the biggest conspiracy that ever shrouded man-kind, would it not? I'm just asking because in another thread you state it wasn't a conspiracy at all.

I think Jesus was a genius who had great insight into the Tanakh and who have great moral ideas. I think that no one has surpassed him in genius and that he was a good soul. Jesus probably was crucified because he was seen as an agitator, and probably didn't agree with the Pharisees of the time. I think the only reason it seems to be a conspiracy is because we made it look as such. We forgot that Jesus was a God-fearing Jew who stayed loyal to Yahweh alone. I don't think he ever meant to usurp Yahweh and would be sick that we turned him into a deity. Christians have completely forgotten who God the Father is. He has turned into nothing but a spirit that lingers in the shadow of Christ the Son. Jesus is now an American protestant. He is no longer Jewish, He is no longer God-fearing, He is no longer human. He is merely a new god.

Ok , merely a new God? No, Jesus has always been God, He apears many times in the OT, as the Word of God, as The angel of God, as the Commander of the Lords army, so Jesus was before, and he was God before, believe it or not, he is the one that created everything that is. He is God. not a new God, You don't know Jesus, so how can you claim he never did miracles? He still does them, I have seen many healed from cancer, and other sorts in His name, he is still a healer, he still speaks to his people, he is God, paul knew him, in his personal relationship, and he knew of the things he did, You would have to Know Jesus to have the Holy Spirit, paul was filled with the Holy Spirit. Now, You doubt, and you let the world carry you away, can you see the flaws in your arguement? It's quite childish, Honestly, if you knew Jesus you wouldn't say such thigns, the historical Jesus, was still God, and still did miracles, he did live, and his story is recorded by 4 eye witnesses, and referenced through out the N.T. Blessed is he who doesnt see and believes, System strike, your whole arguement has no relivence, Paul, was he truly a Christian? well, um, I would have to say yes, because he was put in Jail for preaching about Jesus many times, he has suffered alot for the Name of Jesus. Jesus didn't die on the cross saying, hey I'm going to start a religion, paul didn't die in asia because he was like hey I'm going to teach good morals, NO. HE died for you, Paul died for you aswell, remember that verse, "for your sake we are accounted as sheep to the slaughter?" Jesus died on the cross, for you, to give you ever lasting life, and love, Paul died to spread the news of that ever lasting love, You are to blinded to see that Jesus is the Lord.

[systemstrike_7]

What was their motive? And why would they die for the belief if they themselves knew they were merely 'making things up'?

They did believe in Jesus, but they made a story of Him because for one, there wasn't one, and second, they were merely using this as allegory. They only wanted to teach a lesson.

So you think it's likely that Jesus was just a regular guy who never did anything outstanding except maybe preach about the same God that previous writers through centuries wrote about? He never performed a single miracle, never died, was never resurrected. If this is the case, then we do have a huge conspiracy and a very elaborate hoax, dont we? Honetly. This would be the biggest conspiracy that ever shrouded man-kind, would it not? I'm just asking because in another thread you state it wasn't a conspiracy at all.

I think Jesus was a genius who had great insight into the Tanakh and who have great moral ideas. I think that no one has surpassed him in genius and that he was a good soul. Jesus probably was crucified because he was seen as an agitator, and probably didn't agree with the Pharisees of the time. I think the only reason it seems to be a conspiracy is because we made it look as such. We forgot that Jesus was a God-fearing Jew who stayed loyal to Yahweh alone. I don't think he ever meant to usurp Yahweh and would be sick that we turned him into a deity. Christians have completely forgotten who God the Father is. He has turned into nothing but a spirit that lingers in the shadow of Christ the Son. Jesus is now an American protestant. He is no longer Jewish, He is no longer God-fearing, He is no longer human. He is merely a new god.

Ok , merely a new God? No, Jesus has always been God, He apears many times in the OT, as the Word of God, as The angel of God, as the Commander of the Lords army, so Jesus was before, and he was God before, believe it or not, he is the one that created everything that is. He is God. not a new God, You don't know Jesus, so how can you claim he never did miracles? He still does them, I have seen many healed from cancer, and other sorts in His name, he is still a healer, he still speaks to his people, he is God, paul knew him, in his personal relationship, and he knew of the things he did, You would have to Know Jesus to have the Holy Spirit, paul was filled with the Holy Spirit. Now, You doubt, and you let the world carry you away, can you see the flaws in your arguement? It's quite childish, Honestly, if you knew Jesus you wouldn't say such thigns, the historical Jesus, was still God, and still did miracles, he did live, and his story is recorded by 4 eye witnesses, and referenced through out the N.T. Blessed is he who doesnt see and believes, System strike, your whole arguement has no relivence, Paul, was he truly a Christian? well, um, I would have to say yes, because he was put in Jail for preaching about Jesus many times, he has suffered alot for the Name of Jesus. Jesus didn't die on the cross saying, hey I'm going to start a religion, paul didn't die in asia because he was like hey I'm going to teach good morals, NO. HE died for you, Paul died for you aswell, remember that verse, "for your sake we are accounted as sheep to the slaughter?" Jesus died on the cross, for you, to give you ever lasting life, and love, Paul died to spread the news of that ever lasting love, You are to blinded to see that Jesus is the Lord.

I must have done a pretty good job to make you freak out like this. I don't know Jesus so how can I know that he doesn't do miracles? Did you know Jesus? Cancer being healed? Why is he singling people out? Why doesn't he heal all cancer? Isn't that unfair?

My arguments are childish? The best you can give me is, "you don't know cuz you don't have the holy spirit." I would have to say that is a pretty weak argument. Did I ever once say Paul wasn't a Christian? No I didn't. I don't know why you went ballistic on me, but it wasn't very effective. I would like to see where Jesus pops up in the OT. I'm sure plenty of Jews will think quite differently of these supposed appearances in the OT. And by the way, Mark wasn't an eye witness, Luke wasn't an eye witness, and it is largely debated as to whether or not any of the Gospel authors were who the bible says they are. Did Jesus die for me? I don't know, maybe, maybe not. Right now, it isn't looking good for that viewpoint. I'm terribly sorry that I seem blinded to you, but my eyes have never felt so open in my entire life.

[Joshua-777]

What was their motive? And why would they die for the belief if they themselves knew they were merely 'making things up'?

They did believe in Jesus, but they made a story of Him because for one, there wasn't one, and second, they were merely using this as allegory. They only wanted to teach a lesson.

So you think it's likely that Jesus was just a regular guy who never did anything outstanding except maybe preach about the same God that previous writers through centuries wrote about? He never performed a single miracle, never died, was never resurrected. If this is the case, then we do have a huge conspiracy and a very elaborate hoax, dont we? Honetly. This would be the biggest conspiracy that ever shrouded man-kind, would it not? I'm just asking because in another thread you state it wasn't a conspiracy at all.

I think Jesus was a genius who had great insight into the Tanakh and who have great moral ideas. I think that no one has surpassed him in genius and that he was a good soul. Jesus probably was crucified because he was seen as an agitator, and probably didn't agree with the Pharisees of the time. I think the only reason it seems to be a conspiracy is because we made it look as such. We forgot that Jesus was a God-fearing Jew who stayed loyal to Yahweh alone. I don't think he ever meant to usurp Yahweh and would be sick that we turned him into a deity. Christians have completely forgotten who God the Father is. He has turned into nothing but a spirit that lingers in the shadow of Christ the Son. Jesus is now an American protestant. He is no longer Jewish, He is no longer God-fearing, He is no longer human. He is merely a new god.

Ok , merely a new God? No, Jesus has always been God, He apears many times in the OT, as the Word of God, as The angel of God, as the Commander of the Lords army, so Jesus was before, and he was God before, believe it or not, he is the one that created everything that is. He is God. not a new God, You don't know Jesus, so how can you claim he never did miracles? He still does them, I have seen many healed from cancer, and other sorts in His name, he is still a healer, he still speaks to his people, he is God, paul knew him, in his personal relationship, and he knew of the things he did, You would have to Know Jesus to have the Holy Spirit, paul was filled with the Holy Spirit. Now, You doubt, and you let the world carry you away, can you see the flaws in your arguement? It's quite childish, Honestly, if you knew Jesus you wouldn't say such thigns, the historical Jesus, was still God, and still did miracles, he did live, and his story is recorded by 4 eye witnesses, and referenced through out the N.T. Blessed is he who doesnt see and believes, System strike, your whole arguement has no relivence, Paul, was he truly a Christian? well, um, I would have to say yes, because he was put in Jail for preaching about Jesus many times, he has suffered alot for the Name of Jesus. Jesus didn't die on the cross saying, hey I'm going to start a religion, paul didn't die in asia because he was like hey I'm going to teach good morals, NO. HE died for you, Paul died for you aswell, remember that verse, "for your sake we are accounted as sheep to the slaughter?" Jesus died on the cross, for you, to give you ever lasting life, and love, Paul died to spread the news of that ever lasting love, You are to blinded to see that Jesus is the Lord.

I must have done a pretty good job to make you freak out like this. I don't know Jesus so how can I know that he doesn't do miracles? Did you know Jesus? Cancer being healed? Why is he singling people out? Why doesn't he heal all cancer? Isn't that unfair?

My arguments are childish? The best you can give me is, "you don't know cuz you don't have the holy spirit." I would have to say that is a pretty weak argument. Did I ever once say Paul wasn't a Christian? No I didn't. I don't know why you went ballistic on me, but it wasn't very effective. I would like to see where Jesus pops up in the OT. I'm sure plenty of Jews will think quite differently of these supposed appearances in the OT. And by the way, Mark wasn't an eye witness, Luke wasn't an eye witness, and it is largely debated as to whether or not any of the Gospel authors were who the bible says they are. Did Jesus die for me? I don't know, maybe, maybe not. Right now, it isn't looking good for that viewpoint. I'm terribly sorry that I seem blinded to you, but my eyes have never felt so open in my entire life.

I wasn't freaking out, just he debate seems like your saying paul didn't believe Jesus walked on earth, dispite all passages he wrote about Jesus, Luke was an eye witness, and mark was aswell, infact mark was only 16 when he was around Jesus,

If Luke wasn't a witness why would he write the longest gospel in synoptics? , so how was Luke not an eye witness? Luke was also pauls companion and largely debated subject on the gospal writers not being who the bible says they are, Honestly this is actualy least debated, all bible scolars agree on this, even those that have are studying bible, wether athiest, or Christian, all credits point to the authors where who they say they where, Now the judas gospel on the other hand was debunked, because 1. it was written after his death, 2, The style was by gnostics, in that time they wrote a few books trying to discredit Christ. If you dont believe that these people are who they say they are, then mabie you should look back in the last 2000 years, and see how much progress ones that share that view have made on debunking it. Now lets get into the pre existance of Christ.

the Angel of the Lord. also translated into malach yhvy, "yahweh" A malach is simply a messenger

[Floatingaxe]

Josh~

Hon, I don't mean to dispute you, but besides your posts being right on, I must tell you that Luke was not Jesus' brother. James and Jude were some of Jesus' siblings.

[cjrose]

I love Paul! He was the worst enemy of all law and denied Christ. He tortured, murdered, was generally a very very bad guy. It wasn't until he came face to face so to speak with the Lord and felt this heavenly light that transformed him and sent him out to many territories to preach the Good News of salvation through Jesus. Paul literally changed immediately and made it his personal mission to travel far and wide so others would and could be saved by choice. Paul wrote about 13 books of the Bible. Correct me anyone if I am wrong. But he is everywhere in the NT and at one point misunderstood by the Philipians I think, so he traveled back to them to make known his inspired teachings so they would be clear on his preachings.

Now why would God practically hit Paul over the head with the proverbial baseball bat to get his attention? Because he needed proof. Why did God choose Paul, a treacherous, murderous, man with no concisous? He was a sinner and this is an example of how we can be saved. My proof was seeing others demonstrate the abundant love of the Lord and I wanted it. It took a while but when I finally had an ephifany, in the blink of an eye, His Spirit was alive and I embarked on the most important journey of my eternal soul and immortal physical life.

Praise God for His mercies and forgiveness, even Paul, who was so very dangerous and deadly to others transformed in that moment of a Heavenly light and shed his old life for one of purpose in his ministry to all those who were destined to hear the word of the Lord.

Paul is one of the great figures in the Bible for me. He is proof for all to recognize, evidence of how God can change our hearts and begin the work in progress in building character, endurance, perserverence, wisdom, knowledge and more than we even know yet no matter what stage in our journey. Everyday is a new lesson, a new revelation, a new day of mercies, so undeserving.

Not to say that Paul became sinless as no mortal man was sinless except Jesus who came in the flesh. But it is our obedience that builds trust and faithfulness and the desire to share Jesus with all we encounter.

[Joshua-777]

Josh~

Hon, I don't mean to dispute you, but besides your posts being right on, I must tell you that Luke was not Jesus' brother. James and Jude were some of Jesus' siblings.

Thanks for the correction

[Guest Timbo]

The point I'm trying to make is that he might not have ever done it. Could this not be a form of midrash? Your post doesn't really help your case.

Rubbish. I wouldn't even entertain the thought. He performed it alright.

Timbo, that was very insightful and thank you.

I was wondering why you were labeled as a nonbeliever, but I see now.

Well, I bet the Christians are feeling pretty embarrased because you are showing them up pretty bad. The best Floatingaxe can give me is "Rubbish".

I want to look further into the Pastoral Epistles and see what I can find. Can you point me towards a reasonably scholarly source?

Hi systemstrike 7,

There is no "scholarly source" that I personally can point you to, outside the source I have. Jesus said that spiritual food would be provided through a "faithful and wise servant", saying at Matthew 24:45, "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season ?"(King James Bible) He then says: "Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods."(Matt 24:46,47; King James Bible) Three days before he died, Jesus gave this comment to this question asked by his apostles: "Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence ("coming"- King James Bible) and of the conclusion of the system of things?

[systemstrike_7]

I know this is a bit off subject, but I am curious. What exactly do Jehovah Witnesses believe that is different from Christianity? Why are you labeled a nonbeliever?