Paul's Christianity

[systemstrike_7]

Ok well, concerning Mithras, the earliest find of a Mithraic temple was dated to the year 100 A.D. and the earliest time it is mentioned is in 90 A.D. Before Christ, Mithra was considered a sun god, and that is where it ends. The sun god is portrayed as slaying a bull(which was taken from a different middle eastern cult) and is more or less described as a "saviour of the stars". So from this, we can conclude that if anyone did the copying, it was Mithra, not Christ.

Ta Da, I might be wrong in some aspects because I wrote this post in a hurried fashion, but I believe it is mostly correct.

I've got a dinner date with my all to punctual girlfriend(sarcasm intented) so I'll be back in a few!!

Excellent reasoning!

Now, the only problem with this logic is that it is assuming that Mithraism was formulated at the time of our earliest temple findings and so forth.

Mithra originated much earlier than this.

The early church fathers even recognized this folly. They understood that Christianity was very similar to some of these "mysteries" and refuted them by saying that "Satan must have counterfeited the Jesus story beforehand."

I think we can take their word as much better evidence, since they were closer to the time, and wanted nothing more than to refute this claim.

And agian, Mithra is not the only example; there are many, many more.

[Ovedya]

So what are you trying to say, system, that Christianity is a ripoff of some other pagan religion?

There's no evidence that it is - at all. You can compare the "striking similarities" as much as you like, but there is no evidential connection. And as we all know too well, atheists demand conclusive evidence.

[Joshua-777]

I've heard both, Lets see, was paul aware of Jesus, I noticed no one brought up the book of acts, where his relationship with Jesus was very real, Paul, when he was saul had a vision and saw Jesus, and became blind, Jesus spoke to Paul all through out acts, I noticed that Paul refers to the OT alot to bring mention of all Jesus has fulfilled, Reference, read romans, Paul was actualy a powerful writer for Christ, and anyone who says he wasn't doesnt know the Lord very well, I noticed that Paul uses alot of contrast simular to the writings of John, which had extreem contrasts, presenting Jesus as the Messiah.

No doubt, Acts does portray these heroic figures as doing great things. But how much can we be sure is truth? Paul was a pharisee, (which is why he never bashes on them like the gospel authors) so of course he used the OT. This is all he can give us about Christ, other than some certain pagan qualities. In all reality, he gets 90% of his Christ figure from the OT. This is really all we get from Paul. He takes the Suffering Servant song, and puts him in the flesh.

Yes Paul does agree with John, but as I noted before, I cannot trust a gospel that has Jesus saying that "the Jews are children of the devil". John is very mystical and gnostic about his approach, and he obviously took a number out of Paul's teachings. John must have not been a fan of the Jewish Christian cult, and decided to show this in his gospel. In the gospel of John, Jesus gets a brand new attitude, an attitude that I believe is hardly reconcilable with the synoptic gospels.

It is important to read things in context, If you search background history, you will find that the pharisees where rebeling against God, adulterious, they where worshiping fertility Gods, and there believe in God was only for power. They did not know Jesus, Jesus is God, Paul knew of Jesus because Paul had a personal relationship with Jesus, as far as the other books in the bible, at that time all they had was the OT for bibllical reference, If you look at the life of Paul, when he was saul, he was almost like a hitler against Christians, he ordered steven to be stoned, and he did not know Jesus, in his life he did a full 180 turn around. And John is believed to be closest to Jesus, John teaches in Contrast, and presented quite bluntly that Jesus is the Massiah, Wasn't John also the one who wrote Revelation? My advice, study read deep into the word, and pray about it, because you do seem to have a way off Idea about John, and Paul, study and pray about it.

[systemstrike_7]

So what are you trying to say, system, that Christianity is a ripoff of some other pagan religion?

There's no evidence that it is - at all. You can compare the "striking similarities" as much as you like, but there is no evidential connection. And as we all know too well, atheists demand conclusive evidence.

Well, it certainly seems possible.

And the conclusive evidence is based upon scientific matters. I can find no conclusive reason to believe that the NT is a reliable testimony to the life of Jesus. Too many holes....

The burden of proof is on you my friend....

[systemstrike_7]

I've heard both, Lets see, was paul aware of Jesus, I noticed no one brought up the book of acts, where his relationship with Jesus was very real, Paul, when he was saul had a vision and saw Jesus, and became blind, Jesus spoke to Paul all through out acts, I noticed that Paul refers to the OT alot to bring mention of all Jesus has fulfilled, Reference, read romans, Paul was actualy a powerful writer for Christ, and anyone who says he wasn't doesnt know the Lord very well, I noticed that Paul uses alot of contrast simular to the writings of John, which had extreem contrasts, presenting Jesus as the Messiah.

No doubt, Acts does portray these heroic figures as doing great things. But how much can we be sure is truth? Paul was a pharisee, (which is why he never bashes on them like the gospel authors) so of course he used the OT. This is all he can give us about Christ, other than some certain pagan qualities. In all reality, he gets 90% of his Christ figure from the OT. This is really all we get from Paul. He takes the Suffering Servant song, and puts him in the flesh.

Yes Paul does agree with John, but as I noted before, I cannot trust a gospel that has Jesus saying that "the Jews are children of the devil". John is very mystical and gnostic about his approach, and he obviously took a number out of Paul's teachings. John must have not been a fan of the Jewish Christian cult, and decided to show this in his gospel. In the gospel of John, Jesus gets a brand new attitude, an attitude that I believe is hardly reconcilable with the synoptic gospels.

It is important to read things in context, If you search background history, you will find that the pharisees where rebeling against God, adulterious, they where worshiping fertility Gods, and there believe in God was only for power. They did not know Jesus, Jesus is God, Paul knew of Jesus because Paul had a personal relationship with Jesus, as far as the other books in the bible, at that time all they had was the OT for bibllical reference, If you look at the life of Paul, when he was saul, he was almost like a hitler against Christians, he ordered steven to be stoned, and he did not know Jesus, in his life he did a full 180 turn around. And John is believed to be closest to Jesus, John teaches in Contrast, and presented quite bluntly that Jesus is the Massiah, Wasn't John also the one who wrote Revelation? My advice, study read deep into the word, and pray about it, because you do seem to have a way off Idea about John, and Paul, study and pray about it.

I believe that the mission of the Messiah, as portrayed in OT scripture, is to free God's people. This was the Israelites. Why did God send His son if he knew that the Israelites were going to reject them. Are they not damned to hell now? This seems harsh, very harsh. Why have the Jews not accepted Jesus? They had no reason to. If Jesus claimed to be God, they would have seen this as blasphemy. Was God not aware of this?

[artsylady]

If he believed in Mithras, why did he point to Jesus? Why did he go to prison claiming Jesus or die for Jesus, when it was illegal to do so?

[systemstrike_7]

If he believed in Mithras, why did he point to Jesus? Why did he go to prison claiming Jesus or die for Jesus, when it was illegal to do so?

Maybe he did have some kind of vision. These have been known to happen, in all different kinds of religion, not just Christianity. Would he die for this vision? If he convinced himself of this enough, then yes. And his martyrdom could very well be legendary. Acts is a questionable historical account....

[systemstrike_7]

If he believed in Mithras, why did he point to Jesus? Why did he go to prison claiming Jesus or die for Jesus, when it was illegal to do so?

And like I said, Mithras is just one of many "mystery religions" circulating at this point in time. All sorts of different influences could have seeped into christian theology.

[Joshua-777]

I've heard both, Lets see, was paul aware of Jesus, I noticed no one brought up the book of acts, where his relationship with Jesus was very real, Paul, when he was saul had a vision and saw Jesus, and became blind, Jesus spoke to Paul all through out acts, I noticed that Paul refers to the OT alot to bring mention of all Jesus has fulfilled, Reference, read romans, Paul was actualy a powerful writer for Christ, and anyone who says he wasn't doesnt know the Lord very well, I noticed that Paul uses alot of contrast simular to the writings of John, which had extreem contrasts, presenting Jesus as the Messiah.

No doubt, Acts does portray these heroic figures as doing great things. But how much can we be sure is truth? Paul was a pharisee, (which is why he never bashes on them like the gospel authors) so of course he used the OT. This is all he can give us about Christ, other than some certain pagan qualities. In all reality, he gets 90% of his Christ figure from the OT. This is really all we get from Paul. He takes the Suffering Servant song, and puts him in the flesh.

Yes Paul does agree with John, but as I noted before, I cannot trust a gospel that has Jesus saying that "the Jews are children of the devil". John is very mystical and gnostic about his approach, and he obviously took a number out of Paul's teachings. John must have not been a fan of the Jewish Christian cult, and decided to show this in his gospel. In the gospel of John, Jesus gets a brand new attitude, an attitude that I believe is hardly reconcilable with the synoptic gospels.

It is important to read things in context, If you search background history, you will find that the pharisees where rebeling against God, adulterious, they where worshiping fertility Gods, and there believe in God was only for power. They did not know Jesus, Jesus is God, Paul knew of Jesus because Paul had a personal relationship with Jesus, as far as the other books in the bible, at that time all they had was the OT for bibllical reference, If you look at the life of Paul, when he was saul, he was almost like a hitler against Christians, he ordered steven to be stoned, and he did not know Jesus, in his life he did a full 180 turn around. And John is believed to be closest to Jesus, John teaches in Contrast, and presented quite bluntly that Jesus is the Massiah, Wasn't John also the one who wrote Revelation? My advice, study read deep into the word, and pray about it, because you do seem to have a way off Idea about John, and Paul, study and pray about it.

I believe that the mission of the Messiah, as portrayed in OT scripture, is to free God's people. This was the Israelites. Why did God send His son if he knew that the Israelites were going to reject them. Are they not damned to hell now? This seems harsh, very harsh. Why have the Jews not accepted Jesus? They had no reason to. If Jesus claimed to be God, they would have seen this as blasphemy. Was God not aware of this?

To fulfil prophecy, Ya see this all was prophecied that the Gentiles would inherit salvation and it was a part of Gods plan, The Jews are still Gods holy people, which they will suffer in the tribulation, and in the very end, they will know That Jesus is the way. You cannot look at once section and base your beliefe, all through out the bible it portrays why, Look for the answers, Pray about it.,

[systemstrike_7]

I've heard both, Lets see, was paul aware of Jesus, I noticed no one brought up the book of acts, where his relationship with Jesus was very real, Paul, when he was saul had a vision and saw Jesus, and became blind, Jesus spoke to Paul all through out acts, I noticed that Paul refers to the OT alot to bring mention of all Jesus has fulfilled, Reference, read romans, Paul was actualy a powerful writer for Christ, and anyone who says he wasn't doesnt know the Lord very well, I noticed that Paul uses alot of contrast simular to the writings of John, which had extreem contrasts, presenting Jesus as the Messiah.

No doubt, Acts does portray these heroic figures as doing great things. But how much can we be sure is truth? Paul was a pharisee, (which is why he never bashes on them like the gospel authors) so of course he used the OT. This is all he can give us about Christ, other than some certain pagan qualities. In all reality, he gets 90% of his Christ figure from the OT. This is really all we get from Paul. He takes the Suffering Servant song, and puts him in the flesh.

Yes Paul does agree with John, but as I noted before, I cannot trust a gospel that has Jesus saying that "the Jews are children of the devil". John is very mystical and gnostic about his approach, and he obviously took a number out of Paul's teachings. John must have not been a fan of the Jewish Christian cult, and decided to show this in his gospel. In the gospel of John, Jesus gets a brand new attitude, an attitude that I believe is hardly reconcilable with the synoptic gospels.

It is important to read things in context, If you search background history, you will find that the pharisees where rebeling against God, adulterious, they where worshiping fertility Gods, and there believe in God was only for power. They did not know Jesus, Jesus is God, Paul knew of Jesus because Paul had a personal relationship with Jesus, as far as the other books in the bible, at that time all they had was the OT for bibllical reference, If you look at the life of Paul, when he was saul, he was almost like a hitler against Christians, he ordered steven to be stoned, and he did not know Jesus, in his life he did a full 180 turn around. And John is believed to be closest to Jesus, John teaches in Contrast, and presented quite bluntly that Jesus is the Massiah, Wasn't John also the one who wrote Revelation? My advice, study read deep into the word, and pray about it, because you do seem to have a way off Idea about John, and Paul, study and pray about it.

I believe that the mission of the Messiah, as portrayed in OT scripture, is to free God's people. This was the Israelites. Why did God send His son if he knew that the Israelites were going to reject them. Are they not damned to hell now? This seems harsh, very harsh. Why have the Jews not accepted Jesus? They had no reason to. If Jesus claimed to be God, they would have seen this as blasphemy. Was God not aware of this?

To fulfil prophecy, Ya see this all was prophecied that the Gentiles would inherit salvation and it was a part of Gods plan, The Jews are still Gods holy people, which they will suffer in the tribulation, and in the very end, they will know That Jesus is the way. You cannot look at once section and base your beliefe, all through out the bible it portrays why, Look for the answers, Pray about it.,

So what does this say about the Jewish folk that don't live to see the Trib? Do they go to hell? Why? Why would God abandon his chosen people? I just don't understand this. I can't imagine that Jesus preached what he preached to forsake his own people.