Reasons for questioning

[stafy]

I'd just like to add here that I've made some "nonbelieving" friends here, and I'm glad to have the chance to show them what Christianity's really all about. I also just enjoy talking with them, and really have come to love and care for them.

I'd also like to say thank you to all our moderators. I get frustrated with some of the things some "nonbelievers" post, but I can't imagine what moderating this board is like, and I know you guys don't even get paid for all you do. God bless you for keeping this board safe for all of us here.

Very good post. I want to partake in these beautiful relationships and as I said before, I am always fascinated by the love and care believers show towards everyone.

And I certainly don't want to frustrate any moderators...they scare me!!!

As christians grow in there faith there answers change, because the basis they had in the past, was based on there soul or flesh life which is contaminated by satan. but as they grow in there faith, the lord removes the flesh life little by little so hence there answers change over time. Much of the churches leadership is still tried up in the flesh hence you got a cold shoulder from the pastor, love him for where he is and don't be afraoid to asking difficult and contreversal question,s here, only realise you not going to get universal answers because not everyone is in the same spiritaul place. God bless and hang in there

[Joshua-777]

Just a couple of recommendations for you:

1) If you are here seeking to argue, and have the view that each discussion will be a right/wrong, win/lose situation, then I would suggest that your focus is wrong. There are some here (Sometimes even myself included) that engage in debates with a goal of simply being right and having the last word. For a genuine seeker this can both be disconcerting and "off-putting," to the faith. However, if you are here to ask genuine questions and listen to the answers given to you, with a genuine seeking heart, then I think some profit can come from the discussions.

2) Generally speaking we get a few atheists here that are simply looking to pick a fight. Those folks don't last too long. The ones that have stuck around are those who are generally "nice" folks that like to engage in discussions that promote understanding of both sides.

I understand and thank you.

I do not have a right/wrong agenda but I will question their answer the best I can.

I try my very best to be as nice as possible. I sometimes get frustrated, which I believe is natural, but for the most part will stay civil.

One thing I have noticed that bothers me, is when believers expect nonbelievers to have read the entire bible with a researchers intent. (I explained this in another thread so if I am repeating myself I apologize) I have read through the bible, but only once and just recently finished. By only reading through it once, I have naturally forgotten some of the details( well...alot of the details). I have alot of friends that are Christians and none of them have read the entire bible. My experience with most believers has left me with the feeling that they have read very little of the bible outside of church. To ask a nonbeliever to do what a believer rarely does is unfair. Many arguments have been answered by this response and I find it very dishonest.

Again, thank you very much and I will keep these guidelines in mind when debating or conversing.

Helo systemstrike, I'm glad you started this thread, and I totaly agree with this post, it goes both ways though, I have seen it go to an aithiest not even looking at the bible, and arguing with me for using the bible, also I have seen many Christians, as well as myself at times have this expectation. As far as losing faith, ya I've been through some pretty dry periods in my life. One thing I notice is the closer I get to God, or understanding him, the more Satan tries to take that seed away, it's true with everyone, he fears you with that seed. Keep searching, and don't lose hope, be careful of denominations, not trying to start a denominational war here, just seen alot of heated arguements started over different viewpoints, or opinions, like with spiritual gifts, and other topics in the bible. Well anyways, If you want to know, question, if it starts getting heated back away a little. Always question, I hope that you grow and learn, God won't let you go.

[systemstrike_7]

I asked him if people who have never heard the name of Christ go to hell. And I told him that if they do, I don't think that to be fair.

Like I said, I love the guy, and respect him to the fullest, but I think he didn't have an answer and got kind of nervous. We all do, I guess I just expected him to handle it a little better. I shouldn't put him at fault because I might have done the same thing, who knows?

My sister sent me a message through facebook yesterday and it really touched my heart. I live in a town where religion and church are everything. They basically dictate your spiritual life, which really isn't a spiritual life. My sister is an amazing soul. She grew up a die-hard conservative christian and stayed that way for the first three years of college. Then she realized that she didn't believe in some of the things, such as the question I asked my preacher. She ended up moving to Boston and meeting alot of really cool people. She is very happy and always tells me how different things are. She went on to tell me how she has grown in her relationship with God. I was shocked. She then explained that she realized that God turned into a religion for her in my town. She realized that a personal relationship with Him is much more important than the doctrines and facts in the bible. She was right.

Thank you guys so much. Ya'll were a huge help and I look forward to many more beautiful conversations.

I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!!!

[Joshua-777]

I asked him if people who have never heard the name of Christ go to hell. And I told him that if they do, I don't think that to be fair.

Like I said, I love the guy, and respect him to the fullest, but I think he didn't have an answer and got kind of nervous. We all do, I guess I just expected him to handle it a little better. I shouldn't put him at fault because I might have done the same thing, who knows?

My sister sent me a message through facebook yesterday and it really touched my heart. I live in a town where religion and church are everything. They basically dictate your spiritual life, which really isn't a spiritual life. My sister is an amazing soul. She grew up a die-hard conservative christian and stayed that way for the first three years of college. Then she realized that she didn't believe in some of the things, such as the question I asked my preacher. She ended up moving to Boston and meeting alot of really cool people. She is very happy and always tells me how different things are. She went on to tell me how she has grown in her relationship with God. I was shocked. She then explained that she realized that God turned into a religion for her in my town. She realized that a personal relationship with Him is much more important than the doctrines and facts in the bible. She was right.

Thank you guys so much. Ya'll were a huge help and I look forward to many more beautiful conversations.

I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!!!

One thing to remember, One person doesn't have all the answers, we are all human, and there are many questions some will know, and some will stumble, we are not perfect, and our knowledge is impart, based on what the Lord has revealed to us, only God has all the answers, I believe that all will have a chance to accept Jesus, I have mixed views on it, but I do strongly believe all will have the chance, and your so right, the bible is a very important part for growth, but without that relationship with the Lord, it's meaningless. Doctrines and Facts are important, especialy for witnessing, and growing deeper in a relationship with him, and knowledge in him.

[Akiko]

That's a tough question. Bible scholars have debated on it for years. Here's what I know... (please excuse typos as I am copying this)

" 'What about the native in deep dark Africa? God wouldn't send him to hell for not accepting Christ when he's never heard of him, would he? What about the millions of Hindus and Buddhists who are good moral people, but have never heard the gospel-- God couldn't possibly send them to hell, could he?' If you've been following Jesus for very long, you've probably had a couple discussions that deal with questions like these. What does God do with those who've never heard of Jesus? The Bible doesn't deal with that question directly. Instead, it talks about Jesus in rather exclusive terms. Take a look at Acts 4:12: 'There is salvation in no one else! There is no other name in all of heaven [other than Jesus Christ] for people to call on to save them.' Because the Bible doesn't talk directly about the problem, we must proceed with humility and caution. Still, we aren't left totally in the dark.

"First, remember that God doesn't owe it to anybody to save him or her from hell and take that person to heaven for all eternity. He would be entirely justified in condemning everyone, for "all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard' (Romans 3:23). That's the nature of grace-- we get what we don't deserve, instead of what we do deserve. Even if God arbitarily chose whom to save and whom to condemn, he could not be accused of being unjust or unmerciful. Still why would God condemn someone who has never heard of Christ for never claiming foriveness through the cross of Christ? He wouldn't. Romans 1 (especially verses 18-20) makes it clear that God has created every one of us with the knowledge of our Creator. We have to try to suppress it. Psalm 19 begins, 'The heavens tell of the glory of God. The skies display his marvellous craftmanship. Day after day they continue to speak; night after night they make him known.' Every person ever born has an innate knowledge that there is a Creator, someone bigger, smarter, and more powerful than we are, who put us here in this universe. Those who do not hear the message about Jesus are responsible for how they respond to the knowledge they do have about God.

"So, for anyone who has heard the Good News of Jesus-- that God came to earth as a man named Jesus of Nazareth, and that he lived, died, and rose again so that through him we could have forgiveness of sns and eternal life-- salvation comes through faith in Jesus. For the person who's never heard of Jesus and his love for us, salvation comes based on the knowledge of our loving Creator, and responding to that knowledge with love, obedience, and worship. For all people, Christ is the only one who has opened the way for us to be restored to God. It is his act on the cross and his resurrection that enables any of us to approach our holy and all-righteous God. We don't have all the answers to all the questions that confuse us about life and death, heaven and hell, and so on. But we can know the one who not only knows the truth, but is the Truth-- and we know that he is loving, kind, and merciful. He will do what is right."

(Quoted from the NLT Bible/'Student's Life Application Bible')

All in all? To restate, the Bible doesn't tell us specifically. But what we do know is that God tells us "to go out and preach the Gospel to all the earth" in Mark 16:15-16. He also tells us how we can be saved-- 'For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.' (Romans 10:9)

Also... talk with your sister! I'm sure she asked many of the same questions you're asking and would also be able to help you. You've got people willing to talk everywhere.

Edited January 9, 2007 by Akiko

[billie]

I'd just like to add here that I've made some "nonbelieving" friends here, and I'm glad to have the chance to show them what Christianity's really all about. I also just enjoy talking with them, and really have come to love and care for them.

I'd also like to say thank you to all our moderators. I get frustrated with some of the things some "nonbelievers" post, but I can't imagine what moderating this board is like, and I know you guys don't even get paid for all you do. God bless you for keeping this board safe for all of us here.

Very good post. I want to partake in these beautiful relationships and as I said before, I am always fascinated by the love and care believers show towards everyone.

And I certainly don't want to frustrate any moderators...they scare me!!!

((((((((((((System)))))))))))))

[secondeve]

I think it's fair to say that I frustrate a lot of people here sometimes. But I do try to be respectful, and I have made friends - and the thing is, I do really want to understand, and I get a lot intellectually from being allowed to ask questions. So thanks to everyone who puts up with me.

[Floatingaxe]

I think it's fair to say that I frustrate a lot of people here sometimes. But I do try to be respectful, and I have made friends - and the thing is, I do really want to understand, and I get a lot intellectually from being allowed to ask questions. So thanks to everyone who puts up with me.

You are extremely respectful, and you have my respect, secondeve!

[traveller]

She then explained that she realized that God turned into a religion for her in my town. She realized that a personal relationship with Him is much more important than the doctrines and facts in the bible. She was right.

System,

A personal relationship with the Lord is essential. But, how can you possible have that if you don't read and study the very words HE wrote? Remember, He left us with His very personal words for our good, for our growth. He provided us with answers and tools to move through this life. He actually told us His plans, His desires, His thoughts! Isn't that exciting, that God, the Creator of the universe left us with instructions and love letters?

It is through this book of "facts" that we learn of His promises, of His desires for us. He wrote those facts, please don't make the mistake that others do by dismissing them. They are there for a reason. The book, once you are open to it, is wonderful and revealing. It is through this book, His word, that He speaks to you. That's where your relationship takes root and flourishes.

I do think that plain ole religion is detrimental to the faith. True belief and true fellowship with the Lord is what strengthens our faith and gives us the determination to finish the race. We gain that fellowship through His word that has been handed down, protected by Him, and written just for you.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

And I certainly don't want to frustrate any moderators...they scare me!!!

[systemstrike_7]

Ok, my sister helped me out yet again. She is an amazing soul, and I love her very very very much. She has helped save me. I want to explain what I have come to learn. I will repeat myself, but I'm too lazy to go back and look at my earlier post so just please bare with me.

To sum it up, she basically made me realize that I was trying to have a RELIGIOUS relationship with God. I need to have a PERSONAL relationship with God. I missed this because I was so wrapped up in this stupid town. This town doesn't enjoy change. Here in this beautiful city, we are encouraged to "live for God". We shouldn't be living for God, we should be living WITH God. I grew up getting God shoved into my head. God cannot be shoved into our head, we have to let him into our hearts. I believe that God is my Creator, and Jesus Christ is my saviour. Is the Bible infallible? I don't know, probably not. Is God infallible? YES!!! The bible was divinely INSPIRED, not divinely WRITTEN. God sought over the plan and direction of the bible, but men wrote it. Men prone to mistake, men with their own agenda, men with sloppy handwriting. The point is that, God is still revealed to us through this imperfect, but divinely inspired book. We become so caught up with living like the Christians around us, that we no longer try to imitate Christ. We try to imitate eachother, and this is where we fall. When we look to men/women for answers, we will only be disappointed. Christ said that He is the one and only way to the Father. I believe Him. But what about those in the African jungle that have never heard his name, much less read a bible? Will God cast them into hell just because these people didn't even have an oppurtunity to become saved? I would hate to think so. I believe we try to limit God to the bible. We cannot do this. God is bigger and greater than any book on earth could even try to explain. God's love cannot even be imagined by our sinful, black hearts. Why should we be so arrogant as to think that we can limit God to pages on a book written by men? The majority of the world has heard his word and will be held accountable, but I believe that for those who haven't heard his word, God will judge them on some other basis. I don't know, I can't comprehend his love and I'm going to stop trying. I will only accept His love. My sister, bless her beautiful soul, helped me realize this.

I was so caught up with "proving" the existence of God, that I completely missed Him!! I don't need to prove the existance of something that created my existence. That would be arrogant and foolish. I'm starting a new journey with God. I'm going to listen instead of speak. I'm going to admire instead of seek.

P.S. I know many of ya'll will not agree with me about the bible not being infallible and will say that I cannot be a Christian without believing this. Well I believe that my relationship with Him is much more important. I understand that none of the doctrines or important characteristics of God were changed or miscopied. These documents were copied by men prone to mistakes and there may be some mistakes here and there, but none of them challenge God or His personage. None of them contradict instruction or doctrine.

I hope ya'll understand where I am coming from. I know I seem very undecided and it seems like I flipflop in between beliefs, but I have just hit a rough spot in my life and I am the type of person to openly express my current point of view. I cannot live a lie, and will not live a lie. I can hide my problems from people, but not something this big. I needed help, and thanks to ya'll, my sister, and my beloved girlfriend(and of course GOD!!!) I have come to the point where I am confident in my faith. I am taking this in a different approach.

If ya'll don't agree with me, thats fine. If ya'll think I'm being fake, think what you want. I will stop relying on man to decide who I am.

In love,

system