SALVATION WITHOUT REPENTANCE???

[other one]

You know, it has been so long since I've heard the sinners prayer I can't remember all there is to it. Can someone quote it for me.

[other one]

In looking up scripture to make sure I really know Gods word, compared to what I have been taught, I discovered something that might clear up some of the situation and add a log of aggravation to it also.

John 3:16 says,

[Guest shadow2b]

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Today, I believe the church has replaced Repentance and Faith with a unbibical "sinners prayer" which requires no repentance or faith. They tell them the if you say this lil magical sinners prayer that you will be instantly and eternally secure. What a crock of bull! Jesus said, unless you repent you perish! Why are we scared to tell people that they need to turn from sin and turn to God. You can not say yes to sin and say yes to God at the same time. You either have to say no to sin and yes to God or you have to say yes to sin and No to God.

-HAVE YOU EVER READ ROMANS 10.VSS.9 & 10--?????????

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation........

-THIS IS REPENTENCE!!!!-----THIS IS FAITH IN JESUS-YESHUA!!!!---THIS IS SALVATION-!!!!!!

-NOW bubby buoys--- I didn't really want to start the new year with debates--strife-contention---

-I had determined to be a kinder--gentler-shadow2b-i.e.Gary----But ya know I have seen TOO MANY

-cotton-pickin-blabberty-mouthed-mealy-mouth-judgemental-self-righteous twerps come on this

-board & start "attacking--criticizing-demeaning-judging"my brothers & sisters-for no other reason

-than "they" had determined by some kinda superior-super-spiritual-metaphysical-twilight zone

-spookedy-intergalactical wisdom--knowledge-& inner-lighted presence that ALL of US--MY Brothers

-& sisters had never REPENTED-of our SIN-because WE & MY brothers & Sisters had not MET nor

-understood the simplistic message in the gospel of our LORD & SAVIOUR-JESUS-YESHUA-& since WE

-had not enough intelligence to comprehend the requirements for "true"salvation according to the

-new & latest gift of GOD to this sin-filled world & this christian message board since sliced-bread...

-"these"great enlightened gifted ones & "only"they could & would determine whether or NOT we

-were ALL still as lost as a goose in a hail storm or could or would MEET their newly discovered

-requirements for salvation since of course we just absolutely didnot couldnot would not have an

-I.Q. higher that that of a paper-clip...OF course"all" of these most gifted-ones knew-without

-question nor reading--or posting to any of these threads for any lerngth of time & without getting

-to "KNOW" anyone on this board "these" great-gifted-know-all-see-all-superior-wisdom-

-intellectually supernumerary enlightened ones had condescended to vist upon all of us of lesser

-understanding to correct our theological illiteracy & lead us into the "correct"qualifications of

-salvation as determined by & known only to these great-gifted super-intellectual & spiritually

-enlightened ones....And as always "ONE" of these poor-unenlightened-unsaved-sinfully-

-shrouded-worthy-board ding-bats would quite nicely & in christian love would empart

-to "these"great-gifted-spiritually enlightened--superior beings of true-light that thank them very

-much & most kindly BUT we They & all of these unworthy worthy-board members had determined

-to just continue on in our delusions that we were all saved as far as we had been taught,

-understood, & could comprehend in our poor unenlightened & limited knowledge & sinful existence.

-After a little while "these" great-gifted-superior-spiritually-enlightened ones would realize

-that "their" doctrine-knowledge & spiritual maturity was just so far advanced in comparison to our

-highly-limited-& poor exegesis of scripture we just couldNOT receive this great enlightment due to

-our low mental capacity & highly underveloped lack of intelligence & would finally determine to

-leave all of us in our ignorance & ride off into the beautifully glowing sunset, having once more

-failed to empart their great-intellectually superior & spiritually overdeveloped sense of

-comprehensive inductive reasoning to another batch of spiritual mo-rons who were not intelligent

-enough to bow-down & kiss their enlightened feet or understand the great spiritual wisdom they

-had rejected.....

-GOD-BLESS-ALL-TRUTH-SEEKERS--------------------Gary--

-

[Guest shadow2b]

-With the heart, by faith, we believe unto righteousness. That means that the moment we believe the gopel of Jesus Christ we are saved. Our confession is an affirmation of what we accpeted by faith.

- just fer instance;IF ----"IF" someone had just "seen" & "heard" a demon cast out of someone & all

-they did was have tears the size of silver-dollars falling down their face--fell on their knees & cried

-out & said "LORD SAVE US BOTH" would "that" qualify as "repentence" & salvation??????

-Then be led in "A sinners prayer" by a licensed-ordained-spirit-filled-GOD-called baptist preacher

-saying LORD I repent of my sins & ask you to forgive me & to

-come into my heart & be LORD of my LIFE?? Does "that" qualify as repentence & salvation????

-thank you for any & all replies--------------Gary--

[Guest Calamity]

As far as I know, it does Shadow~

[Guest shiloh357]

Shadow

I believe, based on Rom. 10: 9,10, that the minute you make the decision to believe on Jesus, you are saved. We are saved by grace, and faith is the instrument whereby we recieve that grace. It is that moment that one is justified, or declared righteous. One can recite the sinner's prayer, it will not hurt them one bit. The sinner's prayer is not an element of salvation though. Saying a prayer does not save in and of itself. Confession is for your benefit, not God's. Confession does not cleanse one's heart, only the blood of Jesus does that.

That is why I oppose so much this idea that works and commandment keeping is necessary for salvation. One can only be saved if there hearts are cleansed from sin. To say that works are effectual for salvation is implying that they have the capacity to cleanse the heart. Such is heresy.

I come from a Jewish background. I more than many on this board, am very familiar with commandment keeping. I come from a commandment keeping culture. I know many pious Jewish people who strive endlessly thinking that they are winning God's favor by all their good works, charity donations, etc. I have seen the judgemental spirit in the Jewish community that is very prevelent by some on this board who insist that commandments must be kept upon penalty of hell fire.

Repentance is a daily decision. Repentance is something we must do on a daily basis. Repentance is not something done just the day we get saved. I live in a constant state of repentance. I try to be aware of myself and what I am doing. Even so, I still mess up. That is why we have grace. When I sin, I repent and refrain from doing it again.

[Guest Calamity]

endure: "We are to FLEE from the WRATH to come..."

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Endure, what are you talking about here? I haven't read every single post on this thread, but I don't understand where you get that.

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Matt.3

[7] But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

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I don't think that was addresed to Christians?? But the following verses were:

-----------------------------------------

I Thess. 1

[8] For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

[9] For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Romans 5

[8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

[9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

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Is that stated somewhere else in the Bible?

[Guest shadow2b]

-As far as I know, it does Shadow~

--------------------------------

-

Shadow

I believe, based on Rom. 10: 9,10, that the minute you make the decision to believe on Jesus, you are saved. We are saved by grace, and faith is the instrument whereby we recieve that grace. It is that moment that one is justified, or declared righteous. One can recite the sinner's prayer, it will not hurt them one bit. The sinner's prayer is not an element of salvation though. Saying a prayer does not save in and of itself. Confession is for your benefit, not God's. Confession does not cleanse one's heart, only the blood of Jesus does that.

------------

-WHEEEEEEEEEEwwwwwwwww--I was gettin worried--like -- after 30years of believing Rom.10-9-&-10-i'd be hard-pressed ta "know"whutt ta believe "IF"that wasn't true??

[Guest Calamity]

Endure, I am really wondering what you meant by this, and where you found it, so I'll repeat my question and maybe you'll see it:

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endure: "We are to FLEE from the WRATH to come..."

------------------------------------------

Endure, what are you talking about here? I haven't read every single post on this thread, but I don't understand where you get that.

-------------------------------------------

Matt.3

[7] But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?-----------------------------------

I don't think that was addresed to Christians?? But the following verses were:

-----------------------------------------

I Thess. 1

[8] For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

[9] For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Romans 5

[8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

[9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

--------------------------

Is that stated somewhere else in the Bible?

[endure4salvation]

endure: "We are to FLEE from the WRATH to come..."

------------------------------------------

Endure, what are you talking about here? I haven't read every single post on this thread, but I don't understand where you get that.

Hi Calamity.

What I am trying to say is that when people preach the 'easy believism' that is going around so much today, it gives them a false sense of security. If you tell someone to put their seat belt on because it will make them more comfortable, they may just take it off when it becomes uncomfortable to them.

But if you tell them that it will save their life should they get into an accident, that seatbelt will not come off.

The same is with God. God is going to pour out His wrath on the unrighteous. If we preach that "Jesus will enhance your life and bless you", we are only preaching 1/2 of Jesus.

Jesus preached much about the lake of fire! He doesn't want anybody to go there. So we need to ALWAYS include the WHOLE Gospel when talking with someone. Showing someone 4 passages in Romans and then asking them to say the so-called 'sinners prayer' is a pretty lousy form of evangelism, in my opinion.

Take them to Exodus 20 and ask them if they can say with a clear conscience that they are innocent of all 10 commandments. After they say "NO" then ask them how they plan on being innocent before God.

Godly sorrow leads to repentance.....just like the Bible says.

The LAW of the Lord is perfect in converting the soul.....just like the Bible says.