SALVATION WITHOUT REPENTANCE???

[Guest Calamity]

endure: "We are to FLEE from the WRATH to come..."

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Endure, what are you talking about here? I haven't read every single post on this thread, but I don't understand where you get that.

Hi Calamity.

What I am trying to say is that when people preach the 'easy believism' that is going around so much today, it gives them a false sense of security. If you tell someone to put their seat belt on because it will make them more comfortable, they may just take it off when it becomes uncomfortable to them.

But if you tell them that it will save their life should they get into an accident, that seatbelt will not come off.

The same is with God. God is going to pour out His wrath on the unrighteous. If we preach that "Jesus will enhance your life and bless you", we are only preaching 1/2 of Jesus.

Jesus preached much about the lake of fire! He doesn't want anybody to go there. So we need to ALWAYS include the WHOLE Gospel when talking with someone. Showing someone 4 passages in Romans and then asking them to say the so-called 'sinners prayer' is a pretty lousy form of evangelism, in my opinion.

Take them to Exodus 20 and ask them if they can say with a clear conscience that they are innocent of all 10 commandments. After they say "NO" then ask them how they plan on being innocent before God.

Godly sorrow leads to repentance.....just like the Bible says.

The LAW of the Lord is perfect in converting the soul.....just like the Bible says.

OK, I see what you're saying there, but still don't get the "we are to flee from wrath" part. I don't think that was addressed to Christians, at least not where I found it in the Bible. That's why I was asking you if it was in there somewhere else.

[endure4salvation]

OK, I see what you're saying there, but still don't get the "we are to flee from wrath" part. I don't think that was addressed to Christians, at least not where I found it in the Bible. That's why I was asking you if it was in there somewhere else.

I am saying that when we talk to unbelievers, we need to tell them that there is a wrath of God coming and they need to flee from it. That is all.

[Guest Calamity]

OK. When you said "we", I thought you meant Christians.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

endure: "We are to FLEE from the WRATH to come..."

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Endure, what are you talking about here? I haven't read every single post on this thread, but I don't understand where you get that.

Hi Calamity.

What I am trying to say is that when people preach the 'easy believism' that is going around so much today, it gives them a false sense of security. If you tell someone to put their seat belt on because it will make them more comfortable, they may just take it off when it becomes uncomfortable to them.

But if you tell them that it will save their life should they get into an accident, that seatbelt will not come off.

The same is with God. God is going to pour out His wrath on the unrighteous. If we preach that "Jesus will enhance your life and bless you", we are only preaching 1/2 of Jesus.

Jesus preached much about the lake of fire! He doesn't want anybody to go there. So we need to ALWAYS include the WHOLE Gospel when talking with someone. Showing someone 4 passages in Romans and then asking them to say the so-called 'sinners prayer' is a pretty lousy form of evangelism, in my opinion.

Take them to Exodus 20 and ask them if they can say with a clear conscience that they are innocent of all 10 commandments. After they say "NO" then ask them how they plan on being innocent before God.

Godly sorrow leads to repentance.....just like the Bible says.

The LAW of the Lord is perfect in converting the soul.....just like the Bible says.

I see someone has been listening to Ray Comfort. lol

[Guest Calamity]

OK, lol, this may get me blasted, but who is Ray Comfort?

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Hi,

Ray Comfort is an awsome pastor / street evangelist from New Zealand. He wrote a book called "Hells best kept secret." He address a common problem in most churches how 80 to 90% of those making a decision for Christ will fall away from the faith. He address where this problems comes from and how to change it. He speaks about how the Law of God applys to the New Covenant and how the Law of God is to be used in evangelism by drawing sinners to Christ.

Here is a short excerpt from Ray Comforts "Hells best kept Secret"

In the late seventies, God very graciously opened an itinerant ministry to me. As I began to travel, I found that I had access to church growth records, and found to my horror that something like 80 to 90% of those making a decision for Christ were falling away from the faith. That is, modern evangelism with its methods is creating something like 80 to 90 of what we commonly call backsliders for every hundred decisions for Christ.

Let me make it more real for you. In 1991, in the first year of the decade of harvest, a major denomination in the U.S. was able to obtain 294,000 decisions for Christ. That is, in one year, this major denomination of 11,500 churches was able to obtain 294,000 decisions for Christ. Unfortunately, they could only find 14,000 in fellowship, which means they couldn't account for 280,000 of their decisions, and this is normal, modern evangelical results, and something I discovered way back in the late seventies; it greatly concerned me. I began to study the book of Romans intently and, specifically, the gospel proclamation of men like Spurgeon, Wesley, Moody, Finney, Whitfield, Luther, and others that God used down through the ages, and I found they used a principle which is almost entirely neglected by modern evangelical methods. I began teaching that principle; I was eventually invited to base our ministry in southern California, the city of Bellflower, specifically to bring this teaching to the church of the U.S. Things were quiet for the first three years, until I received a call from Bill Gothard, who had seen the teaching on video. He flew me to San Jose in northern California; I shared it with a thousand pastors. Then in 1992 he screened that video to 30,000 pastors. The same year David Wilkerson called from New York. He called from his car. (He had been listening to the teaching in his car and called me on his car phone.) Immediately, he flew me 3,000 miles from L.A. to New York to share the one-hour teaching with his church; he considered it to be that important. And recently I heard of a pastor who had listened to the audio tape 250 times. I'd be happy if you'd listen just once to this teaching which is called "Hell's Best Kept Secret."

*Transcribed (with minor editing) from the audio tape "Hell's Best Kept Secret: The Purpose of the Law in Evangelism." Thank you to Caleb Lenz for transcribing, and giving permission to post on this web site.

For more information, please visit: http://www.raycomfort.com/

If your interested in listening to the whole teaching you can go hear and listen to it: (be sure to scroll down until you find "hells best kept secret".

http://www.praize.com/sermons/RayComfort/

Jason

[Guest Calamity]

Thanks, Jedi, I didn't know what you were talking about before!

[SisterT-Enduring2TheEnd]

Unfortunately, Ray Comfort teaches OSAS.

The Winner Is Ray Comfort

[eric]

Okay all. I have just spent Half an hour reading every post in this thread, and on advice from Jedi another one hour downloading and listening to Ray Comfort, so I feel as if I'm up to speed with the thread. So the thread is, is it necessary to repent? So Sister T the fact that Ray Comfotr preaches OSAS has got nothing to do with repentance. The fact that repentance is a pre-requisite to salvation is concurred by most posters.. Someone went as far as to say that there is no need to pray out loud, the sinners prayer.

Well Jesus said ,he who confesses me before man I will confess before the Father who is in heaven, and I dont think He was talking about sending someone a note about it written on a piece of paper. If you dont repent you perish and to me nothing can be plainer than that.

Furthermore repentance didn't start in the NT. If I am reading Gen.4:6-7, correctly, God is telling Cain that if he was to repent he would be forgiven, but he he did not instead he went out and murderd his brother.

Gen.4:6. And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thou countenance fallen?

( 7 ) If thou doest well,shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire and thou shalt rule over him.

So repentance goes back a long way and from IMHO is the first step to being saved, but not necessarily to having eternal life with the Lord. It takes a lot more than just going through the motions. Well that's my contribution and only an opinion.

Blessings,.......eric

[Tyler]

How can there be forgivness without a willingness on our part to change from our former way of life?? When I came to Christ I asked Him to change my life, what is the point in believing in Christ and still living as one has done before??

When you become born again you are a new creation! I loathe my former way of life!! It all began when I proclaimed my guilt before the Lord and asked for forgivness!!

Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand!

Only Christ Forgives!