I have a question on God's omniscience.

[eric]

Hate to see this thread fizzle out, because there is so much confusion over the word omnicience, which in the theological dictionary is defined as all knowing.

For example, I find it a bit of a stretch that over 6000 years ago that God knew that a man x, would meet a woman y and they would wed on ?? day month and year resulting in the birth of little eric and eric would either repent or perish before he departed from this planet.

However when little eric was conceived, God, who had already created man with brain cells, not only began to nurture little eric and enabled him to make a choice whether to accept His plan of salvation or reject it., He also wrote his name His the book of life, so if it never occurred to little eric, to make a choice the Holy Spirit would then come and convict, eric, who is now grown up, that he was indeed need of salvation, which completely changed eric's out look on life, because eric decided it was the only way to go.

That is a rough outline of the way I see things.

[Joshua-777]

Romans 9:18-24

18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then,

[eric]

Thank you Josh for that passage of scripture, there's nothing like a journey down the Roman road, but it doesn't quite hit mark of what I was trying to covey about omniscience. It's late, here, so I will have to leave it til tomorrow.

[maguschris]

I believe the problem is in linear thinking and assuming that God thinks this way. As I see it, we are born and at frequent times in our lives, daily, minute by minute, we make decisions. Before the decision is made all things are possible. God may see all things as possible in the future, but it is only when we decide and take action that one possibility comes into existance. Each decision we make takes us down a path of new possibilities.

For example, I catch a moth in my home and instead of killing it, I let it go. This act of kindness softens my heart and makes it easier for me to be kind to the next creature and as well as being kind to the next person I meet. I chose to be kind. I could have killed the moth and perhaps my heart would have hardened a bit more and I would not see all creatures and creations of God. I chose to be unkind. Until I make the decision, God sees both actions as equally possible.

But if God cannot see our final actions which have derived from previous choices and action then he is not truly omniscient.

Hazard, people wrote the Bible not God. How do you reconcile this fact with the times God "speaks" in the Bible. Was this fabricated to enhance the believability (if thats a word) of christianity or did God really speak to these people. Or maybe psychiatric disorders occured back then too and these people who "hear" God are suffering from auditory hallucinations.

Furthermore, if you believe God really did speak to people and still does, may I ask why you believe this. Where is the proof? And if there is none how do you believe something that is so intangible and so possibly incorrect?

Edited January 15, 2007 by maguschris

[eric]

Maquschris,

Are you a christian, with some knowledge of the bible?

[maguschris]

Maquschris,

Are you a christian, with some knowledge of the bible?

I am not a christian, but I have a decent amount of knowledge of the Bible, why is this important to you?

[eric]

Because the first blunder you made, was saying man wrote the bible not God. check out 2Tim.3:16..

[MeCajunboy]

Hi everyone,

I know that God knows everything that is going to happen, so he knows who will accept Jesus and who will not. So my question is why does he create people that he knows are going to hell? I have recently been asked this and I realized that it is largely a question I have no answer for.

Thanks in advance,

Keilan

That's a very honest and worthy question! And with that I'd have to remind all that question this, that although God knows all, WE DO NOT! Not one of us knows our outcome here on earth. So with that I have to assume we all are on the same level as we speak. It is what we do with our future that determines our outcome with God, NOT OUR PAST.

Great topic!

Blessings

Cajunboy

[HAZARD]

I believe the problem is in linear thinking and assuming that God thinks this way. As I see it, we are born and at frequent times in our lives, daily, minute by minute, we make decisions. Before the decision is made all things are possible. God may see all things as possible in the future, but it is only when we decide and take action that one possibility comes into existance. Each decision we make takes us down a path of new possibilities.

For example, I catch a moth in my home and instead of killing it, I let it go. This act of kindness softens my heart and makes it easier for me to be kind to the next creature and as well as being kind to the next person I meet. I chose to be kind. I could have killed the moth and perhaps my heart would have hardened a bit more and I would not see all creatures and creations of God. I chose to be unkind. Until I make the decision, God sees both actions as equally possible.

But if God cannot see our final actions which have derived from previous choices and action then he is not truly omniscient.

Hazard, people wrote the Bible not God. How do you reconcile this fact with the times God "speaks" in the Bible. Was this fabricated to enhance the believability (if thats a word) of christianity or did God really speak to these people. Or maybe psychiatric disorders occured back then too and these people who "hear" God are suffering from auditory hallucinations.

Furthermore, if you believe God really did speak to people and still does, may I ask why you believe this. Where is the proof? And if there is none how do you believe something that is so intangible and so possibly incorrect?

______________________________________

Hi.

If you read the many Scriptures in the Bible where God Himself states; "If," and the fact that He "searches" the minds and hearts of men so that He MAY KNOW THEM, any sane sensible person must come to the conclusion that God did not know certain events and doings of the free moral agents He was dealing with untill He Himself investigated it. Now either we believe what God says in His Word, or we dont, and count it all fiction. God does not force anyone to believe anything one does not wish to believe. I, personally take God at His Word, and I assume God knew what He said when He said it, and that He also meant what He said when He said it. And God knew more about what He said than any man can interprete His sayings.

Read what God Himself said about things that happened where He repented that He had created man because He had NO IDEA that men would become so wicked?

The Bible makes many simple statements that limit God's knowledge. There would be no sense to these passages if we do not believe them. There was no object in God saying such things about Himself if they were untrue. God's plan for man will never fail, thats for sure, but if you read Scripture and believe what is written you will find that God gets to know the things concerning FREE MORAL AGENTS, and their actions, as any other person does (Read Gen. 6:5-7; 11:5-7; 18:21; 22:12l 2 Chron. 16:9; Zech. 4:10; Job 12:22; 24:23; Ps. 7:9; 44:21; Ps. 139:1-6; Prov. 24:12; Jer. 17:10; Ezek. 11:5; Romans 8:27 and 1 Thess. 2:4).

The facts are, God sends messengers throughout the Earth who report to Him of all that they find in the Earth that goes on (Dan. 10:13-21; 11:1; 12:1; Zech. 1:7-11; 6:1-8; Matt. 18:10-11; Heb. 2:4). God does not take care of every detail of His vast universe in all the kingdoms therein. His agents help Him and they are found in every part of the universe on missions for God. Certain angels are responsible to God for carrying out His will in almost infinate detail concerning the billions of suns, moons, planets and ALL FREE MORAL AGENTS on them. God does not personally do everything that is done in all acts and events nor has He known, elected, chosen, or predestinated all the acts and events from all eternity past.

Several times in Scripture God Himself said of certain events that they DID NOT COME INTO HIS MIND (Jer. 19:5; 32:35; 44:21).

God DID NOT KNOW BEFOREHAND THAT MEN WOULD BECOME SO WICKED. It repented Him that He had made man! It grieved Him at His heart! (Gen. 6:5-7), that they would plan Babel (Gen. 11:5-7); that Sodom would be so wicked He went there Himself to see if it was true according to the report of it which was given to Him (Gen. 18:21). He said, "If I find fifty righteous within the city in verse 26. WHY WOULD GOD MAKE THESE STATEMENTS IF HE ALREADY KNEW MEN WOULD BECOME SO WICKED? (Gen. 18:26-32). God did not know whether it would take one or two or three signes to make Israel believe Him (Ex.4:1-12); or whether testing Israel would cause them to obey Him or not (Deut. 8:2, 16). Goid did not know that Israel would backslide as far as it did (Deut. 32:19-29; Isa. 59:15-19).

GOD SEARCHES THE HEARTS to find whom He can bless (2 Chr. 16:9). HE DISCOVERS deep things (Job. 12:22); He tries the hearts and reins of men so that He may know them (Ps. 7:9; 44:21; 139:1-6, 23-24; Jer. 17:10; 1 Chr. 28:9; Rom.8:27; 1 Cor. 2;10; Rev. 2:23), proving all men for the same reason (Ps. 17:3; 66:10; 81:7).

HOW COULD GOD DISCOVER SOMETHING HE ALREADY KNEW? WHY TRY THE HEARTS OF MEN SO THAT HE MAY KNOW THEM, IF HE ALREAD KNOW'S THEM BECAUSE HE IS OMNISCIENCT? Does he think we are so stupid that even though He knows all things he makes such statements as "If there are fifty righteous, or "If there are fourty" "If," "If," "If." IF He already knew, why did He not say to Abraham, "Look, I am omniscient, and I know there are no righteous men in Sodom, and I am going to nuke the place!

God goes Himself, or He sends messengers throughout the whole of His vast creations to find out for Him what He wants to know, the same as the head of any other organization would be likely to do, so that plans may be made and actions can be taken accordingly. Examples of such agency constantly reporting to God can be found in all these passages (Gen. 18:21-22; Dan. 10:13-21; 11:1; 12:1; Zech. 1:7-11; 6:1-8; Matt. 18:10-11; Heb. 1:14; 2:2; Rev. 1:1; 7:1-3; 8:2-13; 9:1; 14:6-20; 15:1-8; 16:1-21; 18:21; 22:6, 8-9, 16).

The 6,468 commands in the Bible regulating man as to his part in the eternal plan of God, and setting forth his responsibility to God and man, the 1,260 promises and blessings, rewards or loss of rewards, the hundreds, the hundreds of warnings, curses, blessings and dealings of God on the basis of conformity to His will. the 1,522 "IF'S" and the many hundreds of conditional requirements of God throughout Scripture are sufficient proof that God does not cause all acts and events by His own decrees, and are sufficient proof that He changes His own dealings with men as they conform or refuse to conform to His will. Such facts and many others make it clear that God does not know from all eternity what any one man will do, much less what different types and dispositions of men will do under various circumstances that are not yet present to deal with.

There is not one statement of Scripture in the entire Bible saying God knows or even would like to know all acts and particular events of all the vast creations of free moral agents from all eternity past; or that He has fixed decrees choosing and predestinating all thoughts, acts, and deeds of free wills from all eternity past to all eternity future. God's plan will not fail and it is known from the beginning to the end and what He plans to bring to bring to pass on Earth He has power to do, but concerning the free moral actions of free moral agents He does not know from all eternity what they will do before they are in existence and are here to have a part in His plan. He does not know which ones will be saved and which ones will be lost. He has made a plan for all to be saved alike and all who conform to His plan are blessed with the predestined blessings. Those who wilfully rebel will be cursed with the predestined punishments according to the plan. It is the plan that is known from beginning to the end, not the individual conformity to it by free moral agents. It is left up to each person to choose His own destiny. God wills all men to be saved but if man does not choose to be saved that is his responsibility (1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9; John 3:16; Rev. 22:17).

[stafy]

Hi everyone,

I know that God knows everything that is going to happen, so he knows who will accept Jesus and who will not. So my question is why does he create people that he knows are going to hell? I have recently been asked this and I realized that it is largely a question I have no answer for.

Thanks in advance,

Keilan

Hi Keilan this is one of those questions that i wouldn't waste time on as I personally feel the question is more designed to lead one away from the real piont which is jesus and savation.