Is Jesus the only way 2

[maguschris]

Mods and Admins: I apologize if I am not supposed to do this, but I wonder how much we can ALL learn from this debate. Please do not lock this thread just becuase. If we get out of line or are disrespectful to one another then fine I understand that. There are some questions I would like to ask chef about his/her (sorry I havn't looked at your profile yet) theory, using Bible verses that seem to contradict it.

Chef: what about verses (in the NT of course) that specifically say that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of god. those include adulterers, theives, killers, etc. Or that those who disobey the word of God will be thrown into a lake a fire and brimstone? (revelations on this last one I believe)

Also, is it possible that those who accept Christ are eternally forgiven PROVIDING they have a just heart no matter their actions? Or is it more biblical in that we must try to live by the letter of what the Bible says and ask forgiveness every time we sin or *yank* off to hell we go? I really don't know.

Again I apologize if I am causing any problem by asking this....but isn't that the point of a forum? To spread the word and for unbelievers and seekers to ask questions in an attempt to learn?

[AnExample]

Mods and Admins: I apologize if I am not supposed to do this, but I wonder how much we can ALL learn from this debate. Please do not lock this thread just becuase. If we get out of line or are disrespectful to one another then fine I understand that. There are some questions I would like to ask chef about his/her (sorry I havn't looked at your profile yet) theory, using Bible verses that seem to contradict it.

Chef: what about verses (in the NT of course) that specifically say that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of god. those include adulterers, theives, killers, etc. Or that those who disobey the word of God will be thrown into a lake a fire and brimstone? (revelations on this last one I believe)

Also, is it possible that those who accept Christ are eternally forgiven PROVIDING they have a just heart no matter their actions? Or is it more biblical in that we must try to live by the letter of what the Bible says and ask forgiveness every time we sin or *yank* off to hell we go? I really don't know.

Again I apologize if I am causing any problem by asking this....but isn't that the point of a forum? To spread the word and for unbelievers and seekers to ask questions in an attempt to learn?

People who pattern their lives after the world are the children of wrath and disobedience. What you do reflects whose child you are. You can not serve two masters...you will either hate one and love the other or love one and hate the other. Before we accepted Jesus Christ as our Savior, we were dead (walking dead, the living dead, and spiritually dead) in our trespasses. When you are "born again", the Holy Spirit becomes your teacher, comforter, etc. who begins to mold and change your heart so that your mind/heart is renewed/changed. Your character should change as you grow in the wisdom and knowledge of the Lord (problem: some christians do not study God's word, so they never grow or change). Therefore, they are never able to fulfill the purpose for which God bore them into the world. On the other hand, the person who does study and allows (free will choice that God gives every man) the Holy Spirit to do a work in them, begins to look less and less like the worlds and more and more characteristics (fruits of the Spirit) that look like Christ.

We are saved through grace (Ephesians 2:5). Grace is giving someone something even though they don't deserve it. When we do not accept Jesus Christ as our personal Savior (we must realize that we are sinners (wretched, bad, dirty). In our own power, we haven't the ability to be righteous)good; therefore, we need Christ's atoning blood to stand before a Holy and Just God...The Creator of the universe.

It is an individual's acceptance or rejection of the Lord Jesus Christ death, burial, & resurrection that gets Him thrown into the lake of fire. Not His behavior; however, if you are a child of God, your behavior is reflective of who your father is. The blessings of accepting Jesus' atoning death result in a blood covering that cleans us and makes us whole.

There is nothing we (indivually can do). It's the Holy Spirit that does the work in us. The Holy Spirit convicts us when we sin. When He does that, we must repent (turn away from, ask for forgiveness). Then we are restored into righteous standing with God. And, yes God knows our heart and therefore He knows if we are genuine about or repentance. When we fall, God extends His grace to us. And we are eternally forgiven because Christ died once for all sin/sinners, past present and future.

I pray that this answers your question. May God continue to prick your heart.

[SwordOfTruth]

People who pattern their lives after the world are the children of wrath and disobedience. What you do reflects whose child you are. You can not serve two masters...you will either hate one and love the other or love one and hate the other. Before we accepted Jesus Christ as our Savior, we were dead (walking dead, the living dead, and spiritually dead) in our trespasses. When you are "born again", the Holy Spirit becomes your teacher, comforter, etc. who begins to mold and change your heart so that your mind/heart is renewed/changed. Your character should change as you grow in the wisdom and knowledge of the Lord (problem: some christians do not study God's word, so they never grow or change). Therefore, they are never able to fulfill the purpose for which God bore them into the world. On the other hand, the person who does study and allows (free will choice that God gives every man) the Holy Spirit to do a work in them, begins to look less and less like the worlds and more and more characteristics (fruits of the Spirit) that look like Christ.

We are saved through grace (Ephesians 2:5). Grace is giving someone something even though they don't deserve it. When we do not accept Jesus Christ as our personal Savior (we must realize that we are sinners (wretched, bad, dirty). In our own power, we haven't the ability to be righteous)good; therefore, we need Christ's atoning blood to stand before a Holy and Just God...The Creator of the universe.

It is an individual's acceptance or rejection of the Lord Jesus Christ death, burial, & resurrection that gets Him thrown into the lake of fire. Not His behavior; however, if you are a child of God, your behavior is reflective of who your father is. The blessings of accepting Jesus' atoning death result in a blood covering that cleans us and makes us whole.

There is nothing we (indivually can do). It's the Holy Spirit that does the work in us. The Holy Spirit convicts us when we sin. When He does that, we must repent (turn away from, ask for forgiveness). Then we are restored into righteous standing with God. And, yes God knows our heart and therefore He knows if we are genuine about or repentance. When we fall, God extends His grace to us. And we are eternally forgiven because Christ died once for all sin/sinners, past present and future.

I pray that this answers your question. May God continue to prick your heart.

Well put. I think that is one of the best sumations I have read. One thing i would add would be Galatians 6:8 (in my signature);

"For he sowing to his flesh will reap corruption from the flesh. But he sowing to the Spirit will reap life everlasting from the Spirit. "

[maguschris]

Mods and Admins: I apologize if I am not supposed to do this, but I wonder how much we can ALL learn from this debate. Please do not lock this thread just becuase. If we get out of line or are disrespectful to one another then fine I understand that. There are some questions I would like to ask chef about his/her (sorry I havn't looked at your profile yet) theory, using Bible verses that seem to contradict it.

Chef: what about verses (in the NT of course) that specifically say that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of god. those include adulterers, theives, killers, etc. Or that those who disobey the word of God will be thrown into a lake a fire and brimstone? (revelations on this last one I believe)

Also, is it possible that those who accept Christ are eternally forgiven PROVIDING they have a just heart no matter their actions? Or is it more biblical in that we must try to live by the letter of what the Bible says and ask forgiveness every time we sin or *yank* off to hell we go? I really don't know.

Again I apologize if I am causing any problem by asking this....but isn't that the point of a forum? To spread the word and for unbelievers and seekers to ask questions in an attempt to learn?

People who pattern their lives after the world are the children of wrath and disobedience. What you do reflects whose child you are. You can not serve two masters...you will either hate one and love the other or love one and hate the other. Before we accepted Jesus Christ as our Savior, we were dead (walking dead, the living dead, and spiritually dead) in our trespasses. When you are "born again", the Holy Spirit becomes your teacher, comforter, etc. who begins to mold and change your heart so that your mind/heart is renewed/changed. Your character should change as you grow in the wisdom and knowledge of the Lord (problem: some christians do not study God's word, so they never grow or change). Therefore, they are never able to fulfill the purpose for which God bore them into the world. On the other hand, the person who does study and allows (free will choice that God gives every man) the Holy Spirit to do a work in them, begins to look less and less like the worlds and more and more characteristics (fruits of the Spirit) that look like Christ.

We are saved through grace (Ephesians 2:5). Grace is giving someone something even though they don't deserve it. When we do not accept Jesus Christ as our personal Savior (we must realize that we are sinners (wretched, bad, dirty). In our own power, we haven't the ability to be righteous)good; therefore, we need Christ's atoning blood to stand before a Holy and Just God...The Creator of the universe.

It is an individual's acceptance or rejection of the Lord Jesus Christ death, burial, & resurrection that gets Him thrown into the lake of fire. Not His behavior; however, if you are a child of God, your behavior is reflective of who your father is. The blessings of accepting Jesus' atoning death result in a blood covering that cleans us and makes us whole.

There is nothing we (indivually can do). It's the Holy Spirit that does the work in us. The Holy Spirit convicts us when we sin. When He does that, we must repent (turn away from, ask for forgiveness). Then we are restored into righteous standing with God. And, yes God knows our heart and therefore He knows if we are genuine about or repentance. When we fall, God extends His grace to us. And we are eternally forgiven because Christ died once for all sin/sinners, past present and future.

I pray that this answers your question. May God continue to prick your heart.

You do realize you just put me in the saved category right?

I was/am a born again christian, Im just not exactly sure what I believe (people wrote the bible not God so I dont think the Bible is the word of God).

I'm just asking a lot of questions. so even if I never understand my beliefs or change would I still be saved? (of course i doubt im saved anyway. i was born out of wedlock and well we know what the OT says about that)

[Ovedya]

The thread was closed due to the promotion of Universalism.

Once that kind of thing starts here, this thread will be closed as well.

[secondeve]

My one query to the idea that Christ is the only means to salvation is the idea - believed by most Christians on Worthy that I've encountered - that non-Christian or very young children don't go to hell. The theory behind this belief is that even though these children aren't saved - and being born sinful, should therefore have no way into heaven - God excercises an overruling judgement on their lives and lets them in. I think that, scripturally, there's no actual direct statement to prove this happens, but some people infer it from other verses. However, this would seem to be completely contradicted by other parts of the Bible, namely the absolute statement that the ONLY way into heaven is through acceptance of Christ. And because of this, I know there are also people on Worthy - most notably Butero and Whysoblind - who believe that dead children go to hell. Personally, while I find this idea abhorrent (assuming I believed in hell), scripturally, I can't see any way around it; I tend to think that others believe in God's mercy towards children (1) because he is often described as a merciful God and (2) because they couldn't bear to believe otherwise. But my point is, if God overrules the need for salvation to let children into heaven, then you can't say Christ is the only way to be saved - potentially, God could pull the override switch for anyone, and given that there's no scriputre explicitly providing who this can happen to, it makes no sense as an idea to assume that adults are all ruled out.

That's my contribution. What do others think?

[maguschris]

The thread was closed due to the promotion of Universalism.

Once that kind of thing starts here, this thread will be closed as well.

Thank you very much for that explanation.

Everyone: dont teach universalism here, let this discussion mature and continue.

thank you

[HAZARD]

The thread was closed due to the promotion of Universalism.

Once that kind of thing starts here, this thread will be closed as well.

Thank you very much for that explanation.

Everyone: dont teach universalism here, let this discussion mature and continue.

thank you

________________________________________

Jesus said. "I am the way, the truth and the light."

He also stated, "No one can come to me, unless the Father who sent me draws him." Lokk up these Scriptures and see.

He is the only way.

Haz.

[Joshua-777]

I've seen this debate go from both extreems, One extreem, repent from every sin you do, the other extreem, The saved are saved, so it doesn't matter if I sin. I believe the answer on salvation is in this verse.

John 10:27-30

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father

[systemstrike_7]

My one query to the idea that Christ is the only means to salvation is the idea - believed by most Christians on Worthy that I've encountered - that non-Christian or very young children don't go to hell. The theory behind this belief is that even though these children aren't saved - and being born sinful, should therefore have no way into heaven - God excercises an overruling judgement on their lives and lets them in. I think that, scripturally, there's no actual direct statement to prove this happens, but some people infer it from other verses. However, this would seem to be completely contradicted by other parts of the Bible, namely the absolute statement that the ONLY way into heaven is through acceptance of Christ. And because of this, I know there are also people on Worthy - most notably Butero and Whysoblind - who believe that dead children go to hell. Personally, while I find this idea abhorrent (assuming I believed in hell), scripturally, I can't see any way around it; I tend to think that others believe in God's mercy towards children (1) because he is often described as a merciful God and (2) because they couldn't bear to believe otherwise. But my point is, if God overrules the need for salvation to let children into heaven, then you can't say Christ is the only way to be saved - potentially, God could pull the override switch for anyone, and given that there's no scriputre explicitly providing who this can happen to, it makes no sense as an idea to assume that adults are all ruled out.

That's my contribution. What do others think?

You make a very good point. This is something that cannot be reconciled because, well, the bible doesn't give us a definite answer. I would like to think that all children go to heaven, and maybe the dogs too, but I cannot give you a scriptural answer.

Now, lets bring this back to the "tribesmen". If I remember the earlier thread correctly, we basically got to the point where we believed that "God reveals himself, therefore, Jesus reveals himself". But, I want to bring another question into contention. The bible is a very important part of the Christian lifestyle. Does anyone here believe that, a person who has never heard the gospel of Christ can still get into heaven? I mean, hear the gospel. Not seeing a burning bush or anything of that sort. But seriously hearing the story of Jesus.