Santa Claus

[The Journey]

Ron,

That is about the most clearly stated excellent posts about Christmas I have read anywhere!!!

Thank you for brining some clear thinking on this issue.

Handmaid,

Its ok to hold this opinion. Maybe its wrong for you to have a tree or watch Rudolph Christmas nights with your kiddos. Thats ok. But I have seen this issue brought out every year and believers torn apart over such a trivial issue.

My advice -- RELAX!!! Enjoy the reason for the season!!!

- Steve

[RGR]

Ron,

That is about the most clearly stated excellent posts about Christmas I have read anywhere!!!

Thank you for brining some clear thinking on this issue.

Handmaid,

Its ok to hold this opinion. Maybe its wrong for you to have a tree or watch Rudolph Christmas nights with your kiddos. Thats ok. But I have seen this issue brought out every year and believers torn apart over such a trivial issue.

My advice -- RELAX!!! Enjoy the reason for the season!!!

- Steve

I can assure you that I come from a very rigid legalistic background and still fight legalism at times. Amazingly, Christmas was rarely one of the things I seen condemned in church except for maybe Santa here and there. I've been prayed about this issue and I honestly, sincerely feel that there is nothing wrong with Christmas. Pagan origins? Possibly. I say possibly due to the fact that I have seen where that great men of God (Luther, etc.) added many of the traditions that are labeled as pagan. I'll find it tomorrow (too late in the night right now!) where that Paul talks about letting no man judge you by the days you keep. He also talks about meat sacrificed to idols and says that we know that an idol is nothing. I think personally that could well apply in the case of Christmas. The pagan "deities" are nothing and, ya know, what a black eye to the devil to take something away from him and make into a Christian thing! (and don't even dare start misrepresenting what I said! I mean within reason.) God bless!

[Faith1]

I still go into SHOCK when I hear believers talking about Santa. Rearrange the letters......satan. Yes, the antichrist spirit....sent to take away any glory from Chrsit in this made up holiday event.

I've already went into this so many times that I feel like a broken record. Please, please, please!!!! Please do your research before you state something! If Santa=Satan, then we have some Satanic cities such as Santa Anna and Santa Barbara. That should leave it to be quite obvious that Santa is the Spanish word for "saint" and not some re-hash of Satan. If you re-spell "dog" it becomes "god," but I'm not falling down to worship at the sight of every dog I see!

Is Frosty the Snowman Santa's false prophet? Sheesh! It's one thing to say that you disagree but quite another to start bantying about terms. As my wife said when I told her about the previous thread, the legends attributed to Santa Claus would NOT be the legacy of the AntiChrist. BTW, Santa Claus is based upon a real CHRISTIAN person who done great deeds!

Brother Steve makes a good point-please don't attempt to force your views upon people. When I say I respect your beliefs I simply mean that if you were to come into my house, I would turn off the Christmas music so as not to offend you. That would be my reasonable Christian service. However, I would also have to warn you that no more than 10 feet away from the computer is a beautifully decorated Christmas tree with gorgeous ornaments on it! Frank Sinatra is also hanging on that tree!

Now, from a Christian perspective of a differing opinion-

The tree-well, what did Jesus die upon? We also generally see evergreen trees used-aren't we always alive in Christ no matter what the season? If you're using one of those pretty little white trees, well aren't our robes made white as snow?

The lights? Well, Jesus was the Light of the world. We could also say that this represents the beautiful star of Bethlehem (BTW, one of the most beautiful songs around!).

The garland and ornaments as well do not celebrate some pagan deity. We are allowed to have festive colored things, even though some Christians think that the Christian life is all "gloom, despair, and agony on me... and excessive misery" (you can tell I love Hee-Haw). Sorry, Jesus came that I might have life and HAVE IT MORE ABUNDANTLY.

Now, with all due Christian love, please quit wagging your finger and condemning people and toting them off to Hell simply because you disagree on a certain point. BTW, your reference about cutting down the tree from the OT is so tired you might want to put it to bed-that was talking about an idol and not what could even be conceivably linked to a Christmas tree! It is attitudes like yours that do more to drive people AWAY from Christ!!!!!

RGR Amen well said Steves right great post

Bless You

F1

[artsylady]

Who cares about how Christmas originated anyway. We've turned it into a celebration of the Birth of our Saviour. Let's celebrate!

[Guest Handmaid]

Who cares ? Exactly my point : CHRIST Cares !

DOWN FLESH, DOWN !

I can see I've hit a LOT of FLESH here.....worldliness that

folks do not want to give up, is always met with distain, and brutal daggers of defense. God's Word and truth means nothing to someone if they have to take up their cross and DIE to anything. They will take your face off all in the name of JESUS. Don't take their Fanfare...their pagan rituals and idols.....their materialism and FANTASIES.....oh GOD HELP US. Don't even come close to suggesting that CHRIST the GIFT be the only GIFT they have and worship, not as though you were told to hold this celebration in the first place. OH MY........and we say it's about HIM. We say we love HIM. We only LOVE HIM, when it doesn't COST US ANYTHING. We only LOVE HIM when we do not have to DENY our FLESH anything. Do you really love me HE ASK ? Keep my commands......not the WORLD'S. This command to keep this HOLIDAY is not in the WORD, this HOLIDAY is not even in the WORD....the command is not HIS. Now you can crucify me all you like......I do understand that it's not the messenger here you hate...it's the message of DEATH to your FLESH, so that does not hurt my feelings.

The problem here.....is that the WORD of GOD is not the BOTTOM line for you. The problem is that YOUR FLESH and YOUR IDEAS are the bottom line. You can't make up this stuff. You can't interject anything you want to into the gospel. It's either HIS WORD or your WAY. And that's what it really comes down to.

I do not view OBEYING the WORD OF GOD is Legalism. I call it OBEYING HIM.

I try to do that just as much in this simple day today...with no special plans.....as in the big things.

You can take ANYTHING and try and turn it into something good and justify your actions....lights on trees, etc. Doesn't mean it's pure or the TRUTH. Know why they crucified Christ ??? Do you really? Because the truth HE spoke to them they didn't like, because their DEEDS WERE EVIL. He told them, they were in SIN and they wanted to keep their sin. Didn't like someone telling them the truth about it. They had to get rid of HIM, so they could live on in their evil and sin. It's the same today.

PLEASE.....just one person show me where CHRIST told us when HIS BIRTHDAY WAS and to CELEBRATE IT IN THE WORD ? If you can I'll do it again.

The fact is: It's not in the WORD. And that is suppose to be our bottom line.

Ever thought about TESTING yourselves ? JUST HAVE CHRIST....and NOTHING ELSE at your Celebration ? UGHHHHH, I bet that hit a fleshly nerve. Try it....you'll find out IF CHRIST REALLY IS YOUR KING.....that HE'S ALL YOU NEED. If HE is what it's really ABOUT ?

I walk the NARROW ROAD......you can choose the WIDE if you like........it's a CHOICE. All choices have consequences. I FEAR the LORD ......and choose the narrow way.

"THERE IS A WAY that SEEMTH RIGHT TO A MAN.....but in the END, it leads to DEATH".

I need to SHUT UP NOW and Walk my Narrow WAY with CHRIST ALONE. I leave you with your Choice !!!

I will say this: I don't want to be with a support group of TRUTH like this when the antichrist really starts deceiving. If you fall for Santa, and the lie....and do not stick to the WORD in this small area, I cannot imagine what you will FALL FOR. If you think fairy tales and fantasies are OK with Christ......I sure wouldn't want you in my camp. I want those who are willing to DIE to the LIE and the FLESH and stand when all else FLEE. We have come to a SAD place in the CHURCH.

[Guest charlie]

<<Who cares ? Exactly my point : CHRIST Cares>>

Jesus said ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. I used to be caught up in "legalism" and as Ron pointed out in his fine post many Christians who get caught up in "legalism" end up like that HeeHaw song, gloom, despair and agony on me. Handmaid, I've know children who's parents didn't allow holidays, for the same reasons you cite, totally run away from the Lord when they reach adulthood. I hope you'll be happy inside with the decision you've made. I'm happier observing the holidays. It seems to me that many people who otherwise could care less about religion do start thinking about that little town in Bethlehem at Christmas time. It's not all about commercialism and presents. Speaking of presents, some of the most memorable presents I ever got had to do with the giver, or the hilarity of the situation when it dawned on everybody that a particular present might be a colossal dud. haha! I cherish those memories of long ago when our family would be gathered together to enjoy each others company, say grace and share a meal, and just be happy. Many of those family members are dead and gone now. What I wouldn't give to relive one of those Christmases this year. And yes I still remember the excitment of counting the days until Santa came. Mama got a lot of work out of me then without a lot of backtalk. Looking back I think it was pretty unselfish of my parents to let St. Nick get the credit for those presents that they themselves bought. That's love.

Ronald, that was a great post. That line about god and dog is one of those lines that'll stick in my mind forever. {{laughing hard here}}

[Andrew007]

If Santa=Satan, then we have some Satanic cities such as Santa Anna and Santa Barbara.

Funny how both of those cities are in California... so... maybe santa=satan

[artsylady]

RGR: I liked your post very much too.

And yes, Christ cares. He's probably very happy we turned it from something evil (if indeed that is a fact) into a celebration of His birth, don't you think? This time of year may be the only time of year that a non-Christian might attend a church or even think about Jesus or God. The Christmas Spirit is one of peace and goodwill. We sing about it, send cards about it and even hear radio ads about it. I felt it as a non-believer and I know non-believers sometimes feel it as well. It's a truly beautiful thing.

I find it offensive that the politically correct police are trying to take Christ out of Christmas and make it into a celebration for all faiths. But I find it more offensive that a Christian not only doesn't celebrate the season, but finds fault with brothers and sisters for doing so.

[RGR]

Handmaid:

Before you start accusing me of being a Pharisee in disguise again, re-read your post about the bottom line being the Bible. Now, what did Jesus say about judging? What did Paul say about bearing with one who thinks a day is special while someone else may not? I'm fixin' to be headed to work, but tonight I will find these verses and post them. If truly the Bible is your bottom line, then don't judge the actions of another Christian because, guess what? I bet you're not perfect either. Somehow I keep imagining what Jesus said about removing the plank from your own eye before you try to remove the splinter from your eye. Of course, that's from the NIV, so maybe I should be careful with that too? God bless!

[Guest Handmaid]

It is my desire to ASCEND TO THE HILL OF THE LORD.....if I am ever to do that, I must have CLEAN Hands, A PURE HEART, AND NOT SWEAR DECEITFULLY (nothing false) , OR LIFT UP MY SOUL TO IDOLS.

We must PURIFY ourselves from the world and from idols. We are in the last hour of purifying. Nothing impure or immortal can ever enter into the Kingdom of God. NO....I AM NOT PERFECT....NOT AT ALL...I FAIL every day, but I do try hard to come out of WILLFUL SIN as the LIGHT is revealed to me. I do try to be an OVERCOMER. I have great JOY and PEACE, and surrender my WILL to CHRIST everyday. I have not attained the goal...but I am striving toward it with all my heart.

Ronald, I do know very well, the scripture you are talking about. I know the NEW TESTAMENT (does not make obselete the OLD TESTAMENT) very well. I just believe our religious feast should be REAL, not something made up by the pagan world. Something Christ told us to do.

Charlie I want to encourage you to read this scripture: Luke 14: 12-14

12. Then Jesus said to his host, "When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. 13. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, 14. and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

Is this how Christ see's our EXCHANGING GIFTS TOO ? That if we give something it should be to someone who cannot give us anything back.... like EXCHANGING GIFTS at CHRISTMAS ?

I'm afraid the debate has been mulled in FEELINGS, OPINIONS, IDEAS, and DEFENSE, Justifications, and yesteryear FUN.......BUT NO SCRIPTURE to back it. There must be scripture to back up our lives guys. There must be scripture to back up everything we do... or do not do.

Ronald....you are the one who has judged me as a legalist stuck in the old testament......and it's been said, that I am like the pharisee. I have not said that about you. I have rebuked the error of Christmas with truth. Backed it up with scripture and the a lack of it to support Christmas. I have given a sharp rebuke but judged no man's heart. I have seen a lot of flesh here however......FEELINGS, and OPINONS that are not backed up by the WORD.

AND, YES, my Pastor and I believe that Christmas was satan's idea. He is someone who masquerades as light remember. He is the Angel of light....He knows scripture better than any of us do....he also knows GOD. He will ALWAYS put some truth in whatever he does. Usually scripture..... He knows it well. He knows we would not buy it otherwise. WE BELIEVE he did it through the pagans and catholic church who wanted to CELEBRATE on DEC. 25th, as the Sun worshippers (solstice is 25th) did and interjected the BABY JESUS STORY INTO IT TO MAKE IT SELLABLE TO THE CHURCH......and then he takes santa claus and all the pagan rituals and the materialism and provokes us to do it in JESUS NAME and for HIS GLORY...EVEN THOUGH CHRIST DID NOT TELL US WHEN HIS BIRTHDAY WAS OR TO DO THIS THING. Satan KNEW he was pulling us into all this SIN. What a great idea !!! How he covered his tracks in this one. We'll set the masses to believe it is about GOD, but it will really be about fooling the Christians to follow the pagans gods and worship a so called omni present, (santa) all knowing, immortal, Jolly (joy), giver of good gifts, (like Christ) lie to take away any glory that GOD might get. (and yes, i do believer santa is worshipped...i do believe he is another god before our LORD GOD). YES, we believe it could have very much gone that way. Oh what jollies he must get. Of course there was someone who did a good deed a long time ago, named Saint something or other...................remember there is always SOME truth to everything he does. We would not buy it otherwise. With that story, he got the FOCUS off the Christ....and onto the things and lies of this world, because HE knew that CHRIST said "to be a friend of the world and it's traditions is to be an ENEMY of Christ. Sly ole fox that he is. He's a TRICKSTER remember. Masquerading as LIGHT/TRUTH. ALWAYS after the GLORY of the LORD in JEALOUSY. ALWAYS wanting to BE HIM. ALWAYS using some of HIS (God's) TRUTH to do his evil

and lead the world astray. I'll bet he sits around laughing at how far he has come with this MADE UP HOLIDAY of his. Laughing that nowhere hardly do you see JESUS....but ONLY SANTA, the omni present santa.....the imitation of Christ.

Jesus said that MANY WOULD COME "SAYING" HE was the CHRIST and Deceive many. They will actually acknowledge that HE IS CHRIST and still be DECEIVERS. Everything and everyone who has JESUS stamped on them is NOT FROM THE LORD. THAT'S WHY I MUST RELY ONLY ON THE WORD OF GOD. LEAST I BE FOOLED.

Has GOD received any Glory in this.....YOU BET HE HAS....but precious LITTLE. AND LESS EVERY YEAR. Satan is making sure of that. The fact is: God never told us to do this. AND IF WE WERE OBEYING GOD....rather than the world.....if we had our discernment caps on.....we would be able to see through this masquerade. That's why I believe if Christians want to KEEP CHRISTMAS....though NOT COMMANDED TO...which I think is the first SIN OF IT.....then at least, at least......show the world that it's NOT ABOUT the garb, the lights, the presents, the money....the pagan rituals. Just celebrate JESUS. THEN, we will be a REAL witness.

MOST OF THE HEATHEN world thinks we are IDIOTS now.....they know more truth about all this than we do. We cannot win them over practicing these UNTRUTHS and ACTING LIKE THE WORLD. THEN....THEN...we would be a LIGHT IN A DARK PLACE. THEN, they would know we had our heads screwed on tightly and were walking in TRUTH.

I WANT GOD TO GET GLORY forever more......I can assure you....I worship CHRIST as much or more than anybody on this board. I have never been set so free as this truth has made me. We live a lifestyle of miracles and blessings and our cup runneth over with more blessings of all kinds than I could ever tell you. GOD blesses those who worship in TRUTH. Satan has also come after me in great vengenance for I blow his COVER. He hates my guts and has come for my son, my only son, whom I love. The place he knew he could hurt me most. AND YES, he did it with a young woman speaking the name of JESUS every breath but who never walks in the FRUIT of GOD....always in the fruit of steal, kill and destroy.

Realizing you have NO SCRIPTURE to back up this HOOPLA...... should tell you something. Should at least, make you study it deeper...pray about it...and search higher.

ARTSY LADY....something is happening to you isn't it....GOD is moving in you isn't HE ? I just really feel like you are in HIS presence at this time on these things ?

Just do a google seach: LEARN for yourselves the truth and the history of all this. Then examine it with the Word and see if you can still do it. If you can, that is your choice. I am no one's HOLY SPIRIT. I am not the MESSAGE...just the MESSENGER as I said before. My agenda is to EXPOSE the DEVIL.....and turn the TRUE WORSHIPPERS to WORSHIP CHRIST IN SPIRIT and In TRUTH, and to be OBEDIENT ONLY TO GOD'S WORD.

I wonder if the death that came to UZZA is the death that has come to the thousands of DEAD CHURCHES on every corner for doing this thing that God never told them to do. Remember UZZA thought he was HELPING GOD OUT...DOING A GOOD THING.....and GOD killed him for it. Killed him for helping him out and doing something GOD DID NOT TELL HIM TO DO. I wonder what would happen to the thousands of powerless churches if the idol of that Christmas tree was taken out of the sanctuarys. I wonder if AMERICA really would have the revival they so want, if they did away with idols and abominations in the house of God that are not suppose to be there ? ? ?

I know we have one church here who has. They "study" only the FEAST of Jesus....

My SON got this at 24 years of age and led me into it.......I don't know why this is such a BLIND spot for the church. He's the one who held me accountable. PRAISE THE LORD.

RONALD...send me your scripture backing up Christmas ? I'm interested in SEEING THEM ???

THEN YOU WILL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE...is sooooooooooo RIGHT.

MY PEOPLE PERISH FOR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE.

BLESSINGS TO ALL, HIS HANDMAID