Carnal Christians

[tsth]

my husband works with someone like that. he drives me nuts. he drunkenly slurs "praise the Lord" and other phrases, and talks about the importance of going to church while asking for a ride to the nearest pool hall where he can hustle anyone who will play him every sunday morning.

how do i address it? i avoid him at all costs! is he really a christian? well i don't know his heart. i know after i became a christian, many people probably thought i wasn't. it was a long walk to spiritual maturity, and i'm still walking it. is it possible to be saved and still live according to the flesh? i really think that depends on whether you sincerely WANT to live for Christ and have a repentant heart when you mess up.

personally, if someone calls themselves a christian and makes no effort to put their sinful ways behind them, i would call their christianity into question.

Always keep the Word as your directive, and you will be in line with the Lord's will:

1 Cor. 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

2 Thess 3:5 Now may the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God and into the patience of Christ.

6 But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow us, for we were not disorderly among you; 8 nor did we eat anyone's bread free of charge, but worked with labor and toil night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, 9 not because we do not have authority, but to make ourselves an example of how you should follow us. 10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread. 13 But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary in doing good. 14 And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

I'll go back to 1 Cor. 5

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

Hope this gives you a little clarity LadyC.

:il:

In His Love,

Suzanne

Edited December 23, 2003 by tsth

[OneAccord]

I would have to agree. We have to daily crucify our flesh. It is something we fight everyday.

I agree that we are all working on this issue to some degree, but what I am addressing here are those that don't appear to be even trying to 'crucify their flesh every day'. They don't seem to be busy 'working out' their salvation, but just carrying on in worldly things like anybody else.

[Guest idolsmasher]

I think that many Christians don't realise when they are being carnal. I'm not the kind of Christian that believes in shunning. I think that God loves us even when we are weak and in sin and that He often uses our weaknesses to teach us lessons of humility and compassion. When people are so good as to have no weakness or carnality, or think they are such, they tend to get lifted up and think too highly of themselves. As long as we learn lessons then it can all be for good, but it is very sad when people don't learn or are spiritually callous. I think that as long as people realise they are weak and in need of growth and change, then there is hope for them. Some people have to learn their lessons the hard way, some have an easier time, and some never seem to get it, but we are all in school and none have completely attained. God can cause even the weakness of men to praise Him. Weakness is almost a necessary element in our spiritual growth, but it depends on us whether they will be turned to strength or enmity. I think it's a school we all frequently go through.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

There was a thread a little while back called 'Enemies of the Cross"  that addressed the issue of 'carnal Christians'.

Here is an excerpt from that thread:

""I have heard people use the the word "Carnal Christians".

Those two words are an oxymoron, they should never be used together. This says that you can be sinful and Christ like at the same time. There is no such a thing. Paul said to be Carnal mind is to be an enemy of God. If you are a "carnal christian" then your an enemy of God.

The enemies of the cross are those who claim the name of Jesus but yet serve a differant master their own flesh.

The profess God with their mouth but thier hearts if far from him.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

(Rom 8:7-8)

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

(Tit 1:16)""

I'm sure everyone knows someone that fits this description.  How do we address this?  And what causes this?  Are these people really saved?  Or is it possible to be saved and live according the flesh?  Is it okay as long as it is just 'mild' transgressions?  Is it our responsibility to admonish these folks?

Hey that was my quote. lol

Glad you used it because it also challenged and convicted me as I reread it.

God bless you all,

Jason

[tsth]

I think that many Christians don't realise when they are being carnal. I'm not the kind of Christian that believes in shunning.

Dear Idol,

Whether or not you believe in "shunning" is irrelevant. It is a Biblical command from the Word......it comes "after" the truth is spoken to that person about what they are doing. So it is better to obey the written words of God. It might just help someone come in out of the rain.

Zech 8:16 These are the things you shall do: Speak each man the truth to his neighbor; Give judgment in your gates for truth, justice, and peace;

Eph. 4:25 Therefore, putting away lying, "Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

In His Love,

Suzanne

[WISDOM]

my husband works with someone like that. he drives me nuts. he drunkenly slurs "praise the Lord" and other phrases, and talks about the importance of going to church while asking for a ride to the nearest pool hall where he can hustle anyone who will play him every sunday morning.

how do i address it? i avoid him at all costs! is he really a christian? well i don't know his heart. i know after i became a christian, many people probably thought i wasn't. it was a long walk to spiritual maturity, and i'm still walking it. is it possible to be saved and still live according to the flesh? i really think that depends on whether you sincerely WANT to live for Christ and have a repentant heart when you mess up.

personally, if someone calls themselves a christian and makes no effort to put their sinful ways behind them, i would call their christianity into question.

Always keep the Word as your directive, and you will be in line with the Lord's will:

1 Cor. 15:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

2 Thess 3:5 Now may the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God and into the patience of Christ.

6 But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow us, for we were not disorderly among you; 8 nor did we eat anyone's bread free of charge, but worked with labor and toil night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, 9 not because we do not have authority, but to make ourselves an example of how you should follow us. 10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread. 13 But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary in doing good. 14 And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

I'll go back to 1 Cor. 15

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

Hope this gives you a little clarity LadyC.

:il:

In His Love,

Suzanne

I believe you meant 1 Corinthians 5:11 vice 15:11 ( and 5:9-13).

[tsth]

Thank you Wisdom for spotting that, you are right. I edited the post.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest idolsmasher]

I think that many Christians don't realise when they are being carnal. I'm not the kind of Christian that believes in shunning.

Dear Idol,

Whether or not you believe in "shunning" is irrelevant. It is a Biblical command from the Word......it comes "after" the truth is spoken to that person about what they are doing. So it is better to obey the written words of God. It might just help someone come in out of the rain.

Zech 8:16 These are the things you shall do: Speak each man the truth to his neighbor; Give judgment in your gates for truth, justice, and peace;

Eph. 4:25 Therefore, putting away lying, "Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

In His Love,

Suzanne

I fail to see how these verses would justify shunning. While I do realise that if a person is being a real reproach, very bad sample, or being a real problem, out of wisdom it might be wise to limit contact, at the same time I think we should still keep our hearts open towards them and be willing to do what we can for them. Total shunning is extrememly legalistic and shows a lack of love and compassion, the same things that Christ rebuked the Jewish leaders for.

[tsth]

I fail to see how these verses would justify shunning. While I do realise that if a person is being a real reproach, very bad sample, or being a real problem, out of wisdom it might be wise to limit contact, at the same time I think we should still keep our hearts open towards them and be willing to do what we can for them. Total shunning is extrememly legalistic and shows a lack of love and compassion, the same things that Christ rebuked the Jewish leaders for.

I apologize Idol, I did not lay out my post very clearly. In response to your reply, I should have reiterated the proper verses. Here they are again: You might note, that the Word does not say "limit contact". God gives VERY CLEAR directives in regard to a believer in rebellion/sin. We are to completely break fellowship.

1 Cor. 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

2 Thess. 3:5 Now may the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God and into the patience of Christ. 6 But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow us, for we were not disorderly among you; 8 nor did we eat anyone's bread free of charge, but worked with labor and toil night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, 9 not because we do not have authority, but to make ourselves an example of how you should follow us. 10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread. 13 But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary in doing good. 14 And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

I'll go back to 1 Cor. 5

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

To say that anything else is the "right" thing to do, would be denying God's Very Word as Truth.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest shadow2b]

-I fail to see how these verses would justify shunning. While I do realise that if a person is being a real reproach, very bad sample, or being a real problem, out of wisdom it might be wise to limit contact, at the same time I think we should still keep our hearts open towards them and be willing to do what we can for them. Total shunning is extrememly legalistic and shows a lack of love and compassion, the same things that Christ rebuked the Jewish leaders for

.

-SMASH,MY Brother..YOU FAIL TO "SEE"????What is NOT to "SEE" Bro.????The verses quoted

-"plainly" Declare "the WORD of GOD"--To say anything else or that YOU fail to see is in DIRECT

-CONFLICT & YOU are In "rebellion" to tHE WORD OF GOD----uhhhh?? do the scriptures of -

-1st.sam.15.vss.23-24--------bring anything to mind????

-For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,and stubbornness is as iniquity and Idolatry....

-Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD,HE hath also rejected thee from

-being king..

-And Saul said unto Samuel,I have sinned;for I have transgressed the commandments

-of the LORD,and thy words;

-NOW SMASH my truly beloved Brother, you can add any flowery thought,idea,heartfelt emotion,

-goody-goody feel-good-statement-you want to BUT YOU are in "rebellion"& directly "rejecting" the

-word of the LORD.....Paul covered that situation perfectly well & all inclusively that this "sinner" was

-to be treated & considered as a "brother" BUT NOT to eat or associate with him until he"repented"

-& stopped his "sinfull behaviour"..... NOW WE your brothers & sisters are forced to treat YOU with

-this very same scriptural edict that you are rejecting & are in rebellion against,UNTILL YOU"REPENT"

-& accept this scriptural doctrine........Smash my Brother you are greatly beloved but you must

-accept & adhere to GOD'S WORD.....IT'S either accept & follow GOD'S WORD or throw IT away & we

-can all just make up our own feely--feely--touchy-goody-goody-doctrines to fit each situation......

and dats da name of dat tune