attemtp to explain the oneness belief

[Guest Bunky]

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, (Holy Spirit) That he may abide with you forever;

17. Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be IN you.

18. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

In verse 16, when Jesus was speaking, He was telling them what was to happen *in the future.*

In verse 17 Jesus is telling them that the majority of Jews didn't realize who He was, but reminding them that they knew that He was the Christ, because He said, "he dwelleth with you," meaning Jesus himself.

Verse 18, Jesus is saying that He would not leave them comfortless: I WILL COME TO YOU.

In all this, you can see that Jesus IS GOD and that the Spirit, that was to come (fulfilled in Acts 2:1-4) was none other than Jesus Christ himself.

God= Spirit

Jesus= Son/flesh which was begotten!

Holy Spirit=God which is the "comforter" and His name if Jesus.

Three manisfestations of One God.

Bunky

[BlindSeeker]

Genesis 1:26 - "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

This verse definitely shows that there were at least two persons present for the creation . . .

I think that God is One in three Persons, not just Personalities.

1John.5

[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. . . .

. . . So, I believe that God is a Trinity made up of 3 Persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.

Regarding Gen 1:26, there are only 15 original Hebrew words which have been translated into English using a total of 50 words . . . thats a 35 word discrepancy.

Therefore it cannot be considered a true "word for word" tranlation.

• Ge 1:26 (1) And (2) God (1)<'elohiym> (3) said (2)<'amar>, (4) Let (5) us (6) make (3)<`asah> (7) man (4)<'adam> (8) in (9) our.(10) image (5)<tselem>, (11) after (12) our (13) likeness (6)<damuwth>: (14) and (15) let (16) them (17) have (18) dominion (7)<radah> (19) over (20) the (21) fish (8)<dagah> (22) of (23) the (24) sea (9)<yam>, (25) and (26) over (27) the (28) fowl (10)<`owph> (29) of (30) the (31) air (11)<shamayim>, (32) and (33) over (34) the (35) cattle (11)<bahemah>, (36) and (37) over (38) all (39) the (40) earth (12)<'erets>, (41) and (42) over (43) every (44) creeping (45) thing (13)<remes> (46) that (47) creepeth (14)<ramas> (48) upon (49) the (50) earth (15)<'erets>.
  

The Hebrew word <`asah> was translated

[whatsitmean]

I am just not getting a very clear picture of what the non-Trinitarian view is. The Bible speaks of God in three different characteristics. There is The Father who created, but the creation is also attributed to the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Father raised Christ from the dead, but He also raised Himself from the dead and He was raised by the Holy Spirit.

The Comforter, sent by Jesus, (and it would be difficult for me to understand why He would say He would be sending Himself, if that is what He meant) is not an impersonal force but has all the attributes of the Father and the Son. Paul often and clearly distinguished between Jesus and the Father so that they can not be the same person. (Eph 1:3- Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ)

In the passage of Ephesians 1:4-14 Paul describes the work of each person of the Godhead in the act of redemption. The Father chose us, the Son redeemed us, and the Holy Spirit seals us. It is all done

[godrulz]

Proverbs 8 is a personification of WISDOM (figurative). It is NOT a doctrinal dissertation on Christology. Jesus is the wisdom of God, but it is sloppy interpretation to say every use of the word wisdom in the Bible refers to Jesus. If a NT writer quoted Prov. 8 (they do not) and applied it clearly to Jesus Christ, that would be a dual fulfillment (cf. Hebrews 1).

[whatsitmean]

Hi godrulz, I agree with you your position on Prov. 8. I'm just trying to get a picture of what it is about in relation to this topic, if anything. It seems to very closely identify with Jesus in many ways (findeth me, findeth life) and it gives individuality to what we normally think of as an attribute or something.

I have read recently how the Gnostics use this chapter to come up with some really sick ideas.

[BlindSeeker]

I am just not getting a very clear picture of what the non-Trinitarian view is.  The Bible speaks of God in three different characteristics.  There is The Father who created, but the creation is also attributed to the Son and the Holy Spirit.  The Father raised Christ from the dead, but He also raised Himself from the dead and He was raised by the Holy Spirit.

The Comforter, sent by Jesus, (and it would be difficult for me to understand why He would say He would be sending Himself, if that is what He meant) is not an impersonal force but has all the attributes of the Father and the Son.  Paul often and clearly distinguished between Jesus and the Father so that they can not be the same person.  (Eph 1:3- Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ)

In the passage of Ephesians 1:4-14 Paul describes the work of each person of the Godhead in the act of redemption.  The Father chose us, the Son redeemed us, and the Holy Spirit seals us.  It is all done

[Guest Bunky]

BlindSeeker, (William) I must say that I enjoy your posts. There is only one problem, they are really 'zapping' the ink out of my printer.

Keep up the good work!

Bunky

[whatsitmean]

Thanks for your reply William. I understand that Jesus was speaking way beyond the disciple

[BlindSeeker]

Thanks for your reply William. I understand that Jesus was speaking way beyond the disciple

[whatsitmean]

I can not answer either of the questions.

I estimate that He was forsaken because He as much said so by the way the question is translated. The reason for being forsaken would be that He had poured out His soul unto death. It was the act of bearing our sin in the final moments on the cross before He yielded up the ghost. I would think it was the grief of the separation brought about by the spiritual death of being made an offering for our sin that caused Him to cry out.

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

I estimate that neither you, nor I, nor any other person has as yet had even a glimpse of the price He paid for our redemption. I think what our redemption cost Him will be a continuing revelation throughout the ages to come even as it is now. I think that is the meaning of the exceeding riches of his grace in this verse.

Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.