Can one not sin?

[eric]

WOW!! I like the weeding the garden anology. It is a daily task or the weeds will grow over the fruit-bearing plants and smother them..... Nice one Neb and Shiloh

[7thseal]

Ok I'm going to stir things up a bit.

Otherwise, does anyone think that saved or not, man is capable of not sinning in his thoughts or deeds?

Yes.

Explain: OK...if I answer no then I'm putting limits on what God is capable of doing in his relationship with us. If one is under the complete leadership of the Holy Spirit how can he be sinning?

We are born with sin so we are all sinners but Christ has already paid the price for all sins...we just simply agree with him and ask forgiveness and repent (turn away) from our sins then give him the leadership over our lives. But the question being asked, is man capable of not sinning in his thoughts or deeds.

Well this would require one to be under the complete leadership of the Holy Spirit. Hmm isn't this what God desires from us? So if he desires this from us then he would have to provide us with the 'tools' capable of achieving his desire and the 'tools' would have to be of God himself. Has he provided these 'tools' to make it possible? I believe so, he gave us Jesus to die in our place so that we are forgiven when we do sin and confess the sin/sins before him and repent. He gave us direct communication with him by the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross. He gave us the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) to fix our prayers before they're lifted up into the presence of our Heavenly Father. And this same Spirit of God is more than eager to direct our every thoughts and actions if we so desire to allow him to. And last but not least he gave us his Word (Holy Bible) to use. Are all these not of God himself? The problem is that he requires us to step out in faith and our flesh sooo hates this. But aren't we given a choice to either follow the flesh or the Spirit? If you're sinning then your following the flesh, if you're not then you're following the directions of the Holy Spirit in everything you do and you're doing what God desires from you.

How do we know if we are not sinning and are following his directions in everything we do? Well if you're completely relying on the Holy Spirit then you should be asking him with an open heart to reveal any hidden sin which might be in your life. He will certianly bring them before you if asked with your spiritual ears and eyes focused on him. So what if sin is revealed before us? Ask for forgivness repent...you now know what the sin is...turn away from it and don't do it anymore. So what if nothing is brought up before you? Praise him and thank him for being Lord over your life and continue seeking his guidance in everything you do.

So I hear it being stated over and over that if one says that he is not sinning then he already sinned because of pride. Well that sin is easy to avoid....don't tell anyone you're not sinning.

So how can I let anyone know that I'm not sinning? If this is your desire then you're not under the complete leadership of the Holy Spirit. Your only desire would be to follow the Holy Spirit.

So the only thing left is how do you answer the question if someone asked you...Are you walking in a relationship with God without sinning? Hmm if I answer yes then I'm sinning because of pride. If I answer no but I'm not sinning because I'm completely under the leadership of the Holy Spirit then I would be a liar and have sinned.

My answer......God knows.

That answer stands true whether I'm sinning or not sinning in my relationship with God. And that answer is the only one that matters.

[Floatingaxe]

Ok I'm going to stir things up a bit.

Otherwise, does anyone think that saved or not, man is capable of not sinning in his thoughts or deeds?

Yes.

Explain: OK...if I answer no then I'm putting limits on what God is capable of doing in his relationship with us. If one is under the complete leadership of the Holy Spirit how can he be sinning?

We are born with sin so we are all sinners but Christ has already paid the price for all sins...we just simply agree with him and ask forgiveness and repent (turn away) from our sins then give him the leadership over our lives. But the question being asked, is man capable of not sinning in his thoughts or deeds.

Well this would require one to be under the complete leadership of the Holy Spirit. Hmm isn't this what God desires from us? So if he desires this from us then he would have to provide us with the 'tools' capable of achieving his desire and the 'tools' would have to be of God himself. Has he provided these 'tools' to make it possible? I believe so, he gave us Jesus to die in our place so that we are forgiven when we do sin and confess the sin/sins before him and repent. He gave us direct communication with him by the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross. He gave us the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) to fix our prayers before they're lifted up into the presence of our Heavenly Father. And this same Spirit of God is more than eager to direct our every thoughts and actions if we so desire to allow him to. And last but not least he gave us his Word (Holy Bible) to use. Are all these not of God himself? The problem is that he requires us to step out in faith and our flesh sooo hates this. But aren't we given a choice to either follow the flesh or the Spirit? If you're sinning then your following the flesh, if you're not then you're following the directions of the Holy Spirit in everything you do and you're doing what God desires from you.

How do we know if we are not sinning and are following his directions in everything we do? Well if you're completely relying on the Holy Spirit then you should be asking him with an open heart to reveal any hidden sin which might be in your life. He will certianly bring them before you if asked with your spiritual ears and eyes focused on him. So what if sin is revealed before us? Ask for forgivness repent...you now know what the sin is...turn away from it and don't do it anymore. So what if nothing is brought up before you? Praise him and thank him for being Lord over your life and continue seeking his guidance in everything you do.

So I hear it being stated over and over that if one says that he is not sinning then he already sinned because of pride. Well that sin is easy to avoid....don't tell anyone you're not sinning.

So how can I let anyone know that I'm not sinning? If this is your desire then you're not under the complete leadership of the Holy Spirit. Your only desire would be to follow the Holy Spirit.

So the only thing left is how do you answer the question if someone asked you...Are you walking in a relationship with God without sinning? Hmm if I answer yes then I'm sinning because of pride. If I answer no but I'm not sinning because I'm completely under the leadership of the Holy Spirit then I would be a liar and have sinned.

My answer......God knows.

That answer stands true whether I'm sinning or not sinning in my relationship with God. And that answer is the only one that matters.

Excellent!

[ray]

One will always sin. However as humans we classify sins sometimes even though we sin every day. As I heard in a movie once Thou Shalt Not Break the 11th Commandment. Meaning Thou Shall not get caught. But there are some people have chosen to abstain from doing on daily basis any more such as drinking, smoking, drugs, sex, and more. These people who have given these sins up have usually hit some kind of rock bottom and gotten help through therapy or counseling or some kind of support group. However, there are not to many groups for support when people take a pen or pencil from another person desk without thinking about it. To my knowledge there is not a group to help people from gossip, yelling, buying more than you need or playing on the computer when your at work. As much as you want to we sin every day, but some of these thoughtful sins can be prevented by not acting out on them and giving them over to our higher power Jesus Christ. I did not do any drugs or smoke or murder any one today so today I guess I did not sin. IF you did not do these things either you probably did not sin either.

[Guest shiloh357]

I can see some potential problems with being consumed over trying live in absolute sinlessness.

1. Not everyone defines "sin" the same way. To some people, wearing jewelry is a sin. To others, listening to contemporary Christian music is a sin. They do not consider these things issues of conscience, but bonifide sins. Which leads to point #2...

2. There is tendency, a very strong tendency, to measure our "sinlessness" against others. Whether we openly say anything or not, people who are consumed in not sinning, tend to be, depending on what falls into the parameters of their definition of sin, very judgmental toward those who don't "measure up."

3. It takes the focus off of Christ, and places it on self and one's own performance, which is very large source of condemnation for Christians today. God does not employ performance-based acceptance. The issue then inappropriately becomes one's works, and not the finished work of Christ on the cross.

Good works should be a natural outgrowth of our relationship with God through Jesus Christ, not an attempt to be sinless. God knows, in His wisdom that we are not sinless, and will continue to sin. That is why Jesus continues to minister as our High Priest. It is why the blood must continuously be applied The sin nature was not eradicated at salvation, and we continue to struggle against our flesh. Sometimes, the flesh wins, if we are willing to be completely honest.

Everyone of us sins despite being saved. Our sins, though, do not take God by surprise. The Lord was fully aware of all of our future failures and shortcomings. He was fully aware of how many times we would break His heart and let Him down, but He saved us anyway. I am left speechless every time I meditate on that truth.

We have the victory over sin through the finished work of Christ on the cross, and we should live each day in loving gratitude to the Lord for that gift of grace. I think it is instructive for us to remember that we are starting from the place of victory. We start where most folks are trying end up. We simply need to draw near to the Lord and allow Him to fill us with His Spirit every morning simply live our lives toward the Lord.

[apothanein kerdos]

I can see some potential problems with being consumed over trying live in absolute sinlessness.

1. Not everyone defines "sin" the same way. To some people, wearing jewelry is a sin. To others, listening to contemporary Christian music is a sin. They do not consider these things issues of conscience, but bonifide sins. Which leads to point #2...

2. There is tendency, a very strong tendency, to measure our "sinlessness" against others. Whether we openly say anything or not, people who are consumed in not sinning, tend to be, depending on what falls into the parameters of their definition of sin, very judgmental toward those who don't "measure up."

3. It takes the focus off of Christ, and places it on self and one's own performance, which is very large source of condemnation for Christians today. God does not employ performance-based acceptance. The issue then inappropriately becomes one's works, and not the finished work of Christ on the cross.

Good works should be a natural outgrowth of our relationship with God through Jesus Christ, not an attempt to be sinless. God knows, in His wisdom that we are not sinless, and will continue to sin. That is why Jesus continues to minister as our High Priest. It is why the blood must continuously be applied The sin nature was not eradicated at salvation, and we continue to struggle against our flesh. Sometimes, the flesh wins, if we are willing to be completely honest.

Everyone of us sins despite being saved. Our sins, though, do not take God by surprise. The Lord was fully aware of all of our future failures and shortcomings. He was fully aware of how many times we would break His heart and let Him down, but He saved us anyway. I am left speechless every time I meditate on that truth.

We have the victory over sin through the finished work of Christ on the cross, and we should live each day in loving gratitude to the Lord for that gift of grace. I think it is instructive for us to remember that we are starting from the place of victory. We start where most folks are trying end up. We simply need to draw near to the Lord and allow Him to fill us with His Spirit every morning simply live our lives toward the Lord.

[Artemus Prime]

Agreed Shiloh, what a good post! That was a refreshing read, indeed...

[Oh Hamburgers!]

I think Shiloh said it about as good as anyone could

[7thseal]

I can see some potential problems with being consumed over trying live in absolute sinlessness.

1. Not everyone defines "sin" the same way. To some people, wearing jewelry is a sin. To others, listening to contemporary Christian music is a sin. They do not consider these things issues of conscience, but bonifide sins. Which leads to point #2...

2. There is tendency, a very strong tendency, to measure our "sinlessness" against others. Whether we openly say anything or not, people who are consumed in not sinning, tend to be, depending on what falls into the parameters of their definition of sin, very judgmental toward those who don't "measure up."

3. It takes the focus off of Christ, and places it on self and one's own performance, which is very large source of condemnation for Christians today. God does not employ performance-based acceptance. The issue then inappropriately becomes one's works, and not the finished work of Christ on the cross.

shiloh I agree but look at the basic cause of these problems that you've listed.....relying on self.

But look what happens when we rely on the Holy Spirit to discern what sin/sins needs to be addressed in our lives and removed. First we have to seek the leadership of the Holy Spirit and ask him to point out any sins which might be in our lives, which means we have to pray more, which he then begins to lead us to scripture more, scripture points us back to Christ and our relationship with him just became stronger. If we would rely on the Holy Spirit (and not ourself) to point out the sin in our lives and point out temptation when its set before us then we have a choice of how to react to anything that has been revealed by him.

I'm going to give a verse of scripture (Jesus speaking) and highlight two words and then break down the verse to explain more of what I'm trying to get across.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

"I am come that they might have life," We know for certain that Jesus was speaking about eternal life but does he give it automatically to all? No, we already know that we have to choose it if we want it and this is why I've pointed out the word 'might'.

"and that they might have it more abundantly." Was Jesus still speaking about eternal life here? I believe so but remember that our eternal life begins when we accept Christ as Lord. When we accept Christ as our Saviour then we automatically become a child of God, and as his child his love for us is more than we're capable of imagining. And because of his love he wants to bless us with so much, but does he want to wait until we get to heaven before he does this? No, when we confess our sins and accept Christ they are forgiving, and he automatically begins blessing us by first giving us eternal life with him.

So what is the life more abundantly that Jesus is speaking about? I believe its the blessings that Christ wants so much to pour out on us here and now while on earth. But then there is the same word stated again 'might'. So this means that we have a choice and something is standing in the way of us receiving these blessings abundantly. What is standing in the way of eternal life with God? Sin. But this is forgiving when we accept Jesus Christ as Lord over our life.

When we accept Christ we still sin right? Of course because we're still in the flesh for now. But when we choose to do this, the same sin that separated us from God is now separating us from the 'life more abundantly' that we can have here and now. And it remains that way until we confess that sin/sins and repent once again.

Satan is the source of sin of course but why does he press us so hard to sin even after we've already received eternal life? Jesus explained why at the first of that verse. "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy", he cant kill, steal, or destroy our spiritual life because we've already given it to Christ but he can kill, steal, or destroy the physical life and blessings that Jesus came so that we might have it more abundantly. What is the weapon Satan uses against us to achieve this? Sin. Can you see now why Jesus put the word 'might' in there? We have a choice to sin or not sin but we cant do it alone and this is also why Jesus gave his life not only for us to have eternal life but to have life more abundantly here and now, and he left the Holy Spirit, His Word, direct communication with him through prayer, and forgiveness through the blood of Christ when we do become weak and follow the flesh rather than the Holy Spirit. He gave us these 'tools' so that we are not powerless over sin and so we can overcome the sin which Satan still hammers us with.

Why does Satan want to steal, kill, and destroy the abundant life that we can have if we choose it? Because when the lost see these blessings being poured out on our lives then they are drawn to it and this provides us a chance to lead them to Christ and boy does this make Satan mad and you can bet he will do everything possible to stop this from happening.

God is of increase, always moving forward, achieving his Word which he has spoken. Do we want to be onboard with everything that he is waiting to pour out on us as the Heirs of Christ?

If we make the choice to have life more abundantly then we must keep sin from our lives and this requires using the 'tools' which have been given through Jesus Christ and when we do this then our faith, fellowship with God, and dependency on the Holy Spirit will increase. And God hasn't set any limits on how much of Him we can have here and now.

Do we want the blessings which he desires to give us now? Or do we want to give into the belief that Satan has put into the Church that we are powerless against sin and allow him to steal, kill, and destroy what is rightfully ours?

God Bless.

Edited February 17, 2007 by 7thseal

[apothanein kerdos]

I can see some potential problems with being consumed over trying live in absolute sinlessness.

1. Not everyone defines "sin" the same way. To some people, wearing jewelry is a sin. To others, listening to contemporary Christian music is a sin. They do not consider these things issues of conscience, but bonifide sins. Which leads to point #2...

2. There is tendency, a very strong tendency, to measure our "sinlessness" against others. Whether we openly say anything or not, people who are consumed in not sinning, tend to be, depending on what falls into the parameters of their definition of sin, very judgmental toward those who don't "measure up."

3. It takes the focus off of Christ, and places it on self and one's own performance, which is very large source of condemnation for Christians today. God does not employ performance-based acceptance. The issue then inappropriately becomes one's works, and not the finished work of Christ on the cross.

shiloh I agree but look at the basic cause of these problems that you've listed.....relying on self.

But look what happens when we rely on the Holy Spirit to discern what sin/sins needs to be addressed in our lives and removed. First we have to seek the leadership of the Holy Spirit and ask him to point out any sins which might be in our lives, which means we have to pray more, which he then begins to lead us to scripture more, scripture points us back to Christ and our relationship with him just became stronger. If we would rely on the Holy Spirit (and not ourself) to point out the sin in our lives and point out temptation when its set before us then we have a choice of how to react to anything that has been revealed by him.

I'm going to give a verse of scripture (Jesus speaking) and highlight two words and then break down the verse to explain more of what I'm trying to get across.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

"I am come that they might have life," We know for certain that Jesus was speaking about eternal life but does he give it automatically to all? No, we already know that we have to choose it if we want it and this is why I've pointed out the word 'might'.

"and that they might have it more abundantly." Was Jesus still speaking about eternal life here? I believe so but remember that our eternal life begins when we accept Christ as Lord. When we accept Christ as our Saviour then we automatically become a child of God, and as his child his love for us is more than we're capable of imagining. And because of his love he wants to bless us with so much, but does he want to wait until we get to heaven before he does this? No, when we confess our sins and accept Christ they are forgiving, and he automatically begins blessing us by first giving us eternal life with him.

So what is the life more abundantly that Jesus is speaking about? I believe its the blessings that Christ wants so much to pour out on us here and now while on earth. But then there is the same word stated again 'might'. So this means that we have a choice and something is standing in the way of us receiving these blessings abundantly. What is standing in the way of eternal life with God? Sin. But this is forgiving when we accept Jesus Christ as Lord over our life.

When we accept Christ we still sin right? Of course because we're still in the flesh for now. But when we choose to do this, the same sin that separated us from God is now separating us from the 'life more abundantly' that we can have here and now. And it remains that way until we confess that sin/sins and repent once again.

Satan is the source of sin of course but why does he press us so hard to sin even after we've already received eternal life? Jesus explained why at the first of that verse. "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy", he cant kill, steal, or destroy our spiritual life because we've already given it to Christ but he can kill, steal, or destroy the physical life and blessings that Jesus came so that we might have it more abundantly. What is the weapon Satan uses against us to achieve this? Sin. Can you see now why Jesus put the word 'might' in there? We have a choice to sin or not sin but we cant do it alone and this is also why Jesus gave his life not only for us to have eternal life but to have life more abundantly here and now, and he left the Holy Spirit, His Word, direct communication with him through prayer, and forgiveness through the blood of Christ when we do become weak and follow the flesh rather than the Holy Spirit. He gave us these 'tools' so that we are not powerless over sin and so we can overcome the sin which Satan still hammers us with.

Why does Satan want to steal, kill, and destroy the abundant life that we can have if we choose it? Because when the lost see these blessings being poured out on our lives then they are drawn to it and this provides us a chance to lead them to Christ and boy does this make Satan mad and you can bet he will do everything possible to stop this from happening.

God is of increase, always moving forward, achieving his Word which he has spoken. Do we want to be onboard with everything that he is waiting to pour out on us as the Heirs of Christ?

If we make the choice to have life more abundantly then we must keep sin from our lives and this requires using the 'tools' which have been given through Jesus Christ and when we do this then our faith, fellowship with God, and dependency on the Holy Spirit will increase. And God hasn't set any limits on how much of Him we can have here and now.

Do we want the blessings which he desires to give us now? Or do we want to give into the belief that Satan has put into the Church that we are powerless against sin and allow him to steal, kill, and destroy what is rightfully ours?

God Bless.

This assumes that our connection with the Holy Spirit is perfect, and it's not. We are fallible humans and therefore will sometimes reject what the Holy Spirit has instructed us to do, or we won't fully understand. That is part of sanctification, growth.