Christians rejecting the Faith?

[Catsmeow]

Shiloh, you make excellent points and so do the others...but it's hard to put it together cohesively.

Don't allow your anger to take over....there's truth in what you say but I also understand the other side.

We need to be open to honest dialogue and loving and patient discussion.

[Catsmeow]

I do believe that a Christian who rebels does pay a heavy price. There is much that will happen to someone. He/she will be punished for their rebellion. They will suffer loss at the judgement. They will live outiside God's protection. They may even die prematurely. I just do not think that they are expelled from the family.

Yea, I know. I have been "disciplined" ...believe me! I know God disciplines those He loves...He's given me a "whoopin' a few times" because He loves me...what Father doesn't?

I'm still concerned that some may do foolish things and wander out of His protection...I dunno. It's hard to figure.

[angels4u]

Shilo, I'm with you, but its a matter of doctrine and we all have to choose what we believe and I'm trusting the Lord for my Salvation because I can't trust myself, He will carry me all the way through until I see Him face to face

Angels

[Guest shiloh357]

Hebrews 4:1-3; 6-7

1 Therefore, while the promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear so that none of you should miss it. 2 For we also have received the good news just as they did; but the message they heard did not benefit them, since they were not united with those who heard it in faith 3 (for we who have believed enter the rest), in keeping with what He has said: So I swore in My anger, they will not enter My rest.

6 Since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again, He specifies a certain day-- today --speaking through David after such a long time, as previously stated: Today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.

Keep in mind that Hebrews is not addressed to Christians in particular. It is most likely addressed to unsaved Jews and deals with Jewish issues almost exclusively. The matierial suggests that this a letter or pamphlet intended to reach Jews with the gospel using things that Jews in the first century would have been familiar with. It would be faulty to assume that the audience was exclusively Christian. I am not saying that Christians did not read the letter in the 1st century, I am just saying that the material covered in Hebrews suggests that Christians were not the target audience.

He was talking to Jews about what it means to enter God's rest (savlation) The sabbath is a picture of eternal rest. Entering the promised land was a picture of salvation. Why did the first generation fail to enter the promised land? Because of their disobedience. It is disobedience that keeps everyone from entering the promised land (salvation). That is the point here. He is not talking about the disobedience of saved individuals, he is talking about the disobedience of those who knew the truth and rejected it. The disobedience addressed here is unbelief, not apostacy.

[Edited to add] The promised land was given to Abraham and his descendants by God and was unconditional. The promised land represents Christ. Entering the promised land is a picture of entering into Christ. This what we call "positional justification." We are placed in Christ by God when we accept His grace through faith. We do not get ourselves there, and we do not keep ourselves there. It is a work of God. I will post more about this subject later on. Till then read about the Abrahamic covenant in Gen.15.

[Catsmeow]

Okay, but then what is it they're talking about when they say the great "apostacy" in the end times?

Sounds to me like the Christian Church/Body departing from the true faith...

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, you make excellent points and so do the others...but it's hard to put it together cohesively.

Don't allow your anger to take over....there's truth in what you say but I also understand the other side.

We need to be open to honest dialogue and loving and patient discussion.

I hear you. It is because I am not allowing my anger to take over that I am just ignoring what certain people say, simply because they want to force upon me things I have not said, and are assigning their values to me. That is not debate. If they actually wanted to engage the issue, instead denegrating those they disagree with, and then get even madder when I don't like it, well they can just post to the wind as far as I am concerned.

I have no problem with the other side believing what they want to believe. I can debate and respect their points at the same time. I simply have no patience with those who think that disagreeing with them is to disagree with God Himself, while my ideas are nothing more than "man's opinions" or "doctrines of devils" and such. It is just a lot of arrogance and does not contribute to healty intelligent debate.

[Catsmeow]

Okay...here it is...I found it.

It's from someone's quote:

1 Timothy 4:1 KJV

(1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

:t:

[Catsmeow]

Oops, I posted this before I read your last post....

I was just thinking of the "Great Apostacy" you always hear about.

And I don't care if people want to get angry because I do "such and such".

I have someone annoyed at me because I absolutely wouldn't "cover my head"...period.

Another thinks I'm an abomination because I give out treats and tracts on Halloween...I'm honoring God, not Satan.

But...there's always those legalists who'd think I had the devil in me to do that...

But...hey, it's my chance to witness while handing out candy. I feel clean inside about it and the HS hasn't said, "Shame, shame..."

When I was real rigid and legalistic, everyone had to think as I did and "measure up" to my level of holiness or else...

Now, I'm so much more relaxed...

For me, sincere worship of God is a matter of what lives in our hearts...and what God is looking for in each heart is a heart that loves...both Him and others.

[Guest Calamity]

Shiloh, you make excellent points and so do the others...but it's hard to put it together cohesively.

Don't allow your anger to take over....there's truth in what you say but I also understand the other side.

We need to be open to honest dialogue and loving and patient discussion.

I hear you. It is because I am not allowing my anger to take over that I am just ignoring what certain people say, simply because they want to force upon me things I have not said, and are assigning their values to me. That is not debate. If they actually wanted to engage the issue, instead denegrating those they disagree with, and then get even madder when I don't like it, well they can just post to the wind as far as I am concerned.

I have no problem with the other side believing what they want to believe. I can debate and respect their points at the same time. I simply have no patience with those who think that disagreeing with them is to disagree with God Himself, while my ideas are nothing more than "man's opinions" or "doctrines of devils" and such. It is just a lot of arrogance and does not contribute to healty intelligent debate.

Shiloh, I think you are right. Some post almost with hostility and arrogance, and you are not one that does that. It's only human to get aggitated by it, but I don't think you are the one who needs to "watch" what you're saying to begin with, only how you respond to what is said in the hostile manner towards you and others who do not agree, and so do I.

Differences in doctrines like OSAS, does not mean that one is believeing a false teaching or is heretical. Some posts seem to imply that, that is the case, and it comes off very hostile and arrogant.

[Catsmeow]

Calamity: I just dig the doggie...ruff-ruff!