No Second Chance

[OneAccord]

We may not understand God's plan but He made it clear that there is no excuse for not knowing Him.

Are you saying that the native aboriginal hunter somewhere in the deeps of the jungle knows God then? Before any missionary penetrated the bush in his region? And if so, is he saved?

[WayneB]

I wrestle with this one bigtime

One Accord, me too but I learned to trust His word and His plan. Mankind is a work in process and God is preparing us for eternity with Him. The issue, as I see it, comes down to this. Who do we as individuals choose to worship? Ourselves? Our wealth? Our accomplishments? The created things? The sun? The stars? A river? Whatever? ...or have we decided to follow that calling that is within us all to respond to the one and only Creator of ALL things and worship Him. Who do we choose to fellowship with? I choose Christ.

I would tell my 4-year old daughter (if I had one) to trust in Jesus and pray for all the peoples of the world, that God's will is done and that all people respond to His call for fellowship. I wouldn't teach hell except to say that those that choose to follow a false path choose to be separted from God the Creator of all things.

God Bless,

Wayne

[WayneB]

Are you saying that the native aboriginal hunter somewhere in the deeps of the jungle knows God then? Before any missionary penetrated the bush in his region? And if so, is he saved?

Yes, I believe it is possible for him/her to know the one and true Creator God. Actually there are many testimonies that support that, the most convincing being Pauls letter to the Romans of coarse.

There is already a thread in which George posted an interesting story supporting this understanding. I used material from his post about Pachacuti, an Inca ruler who led his people to know the one and only Creator God, in a discussion with my friend who feels as you do. Good stuff. The thread is under controversial issues and is titled," Do they go to hell?, People who never heard of Christ".

Another source is a book that I read and found interesting. It is titled "Spirit of the Rainforest: A Yanomamo Shaman's Story" written by Mark Andrew Ritchie. Although Ritchie is a Christian, he wrote this book in an unbiased manner. You can order it from Amazon.com

To order, go to:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0964695235/ref=pd_sxp_f/102-5030210-2854511?v=glance&s=books

One last resource that I found helpful and you may as well is a booklet written and published by RBC ministries on-line titled "What about those who have never heard". You can read the entire booklet on-line at http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/q0605/q0605.html#intro.

The author wrote, "As we take a closer look, we do so with this confidence: If at any point we find ourselves doubting God

[Guest Calamity]

OneAccord:

"I am teaching and training my 4 year old daughter Biblical principles, at what point do I introduce the hell doctrine to her? Oh, by the way, Grandma and your big sister are both going to hell if they die tonight because they don't love Jesus? Does it ever trouble anyone to teach this to their children?"

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It would trouble me to not teach that those who don't accept Christ as their Savior are going to go to hell, because that's what the Bible teaches. To tell someone else anything different, would be telling them only part of the Truth, wouldn't it?

John.14

[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 3

[14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Matthew 25

[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

[46] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Notice that the 'everlasting fire' was prepared not for man, but for the devil and his angels. If man goes there, it is because he has not accepted Christ as his Savior - of his own free will.

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"I wrestle with this one bigtime, because I cannot seem to integrate the God of steadfast love, longsuffering and tender mercies with a God that condemns His own creations to everlasting damnation, who never asked to be created in the first place, much less infected with sin because of Adam thousands of years ago. The whole thing smacks of sadism , to think He would create some for the express purpose of revealing His wrath, knowing full well from the foundation of the earth that they would all be sinners and who would or wouldn't accept Jesus as Lord during this lifetime, and not only that but actually hardening hearts so they don't stand a chance."

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God is a God of Love, but He is God, and His judgments are righteous. God knows everyting, OA. Because He knows who will, and who will not accept Jesus as Lord, does not mean that those people do not have a chance to do that - but God has foreknowledge of who will and who won't, even before they're born. How could He not know? He's God, and knows everything. It's not God's will that any should perish, but man has freewill, and there are only 2 choices. Those that do not accept Christ WILL perish. Not because God (or any of us) want them to, but because that's what God's own Word says. If we did not have free will, we'd be basically robots. God obviously didn't want robots, so He made us with our free will to choose who to serve. He wants us to choose Him, but not all will.

2Pet.3

[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Matt.18

[14] Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

I believe that Unitarians believe that all will end up in Heaven, regardless, but that's not what the Bible teaches. OA, I hope that you come to a resolution about this in your heart very soon.

[IslandRose]

Saved By Grace and Calamity,

Very good presentations of scripture!

IR

[eric]

Good post Calamity.

[George]

I'm not sure if I understand your response, George. Are you saying that wondering if the bulk of humanity is destined to suffering eternal torture in hell by the God of steadfast love and mercy is speculating? Because that is essentially what we are being taught (and supposed to be teaching), are we never to question it?

The Bible is clear that the road to heaven is narrow -- only through Jesus.

How does God deal with those that never heard the gospel? That's the questions you raised and what I was suggesting was instead of trying to answer those questions, rest in the character of God.

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[endure4salvation]

Purgatory comes from one of the Maccccccibbeeeesss books from what I understand. But it is foreign to the Bible (the Non-Catholic Bible anyway).

I think that OneAccord asked many soul searching questions. But in the end, it is God's territory. He knows and justice will be done on the last day.....(judgment).

[WayneB]

How does God deal with those that never heard the gospel? That's the questions you raised and what I was suggesting was instead of trying to answer those questions, rest in the character of God.

I agree George in principle but we still need to be prepared to respond to those who question God and His character. It helps to question these things in my humble opinion in order to be effective in winning the lost to Christ. We will be asked the same "what about" and "what if" questions from those who are lost and believers like me, you, One Accord and all the others on this board need to be prepared to respond in Truth and Spirit.

Be Blessed brother,

Wayne

[Anonymous]

Hmmm..... I am lost. I always thought that once you've died... it's all over. If you haven't chosen Christ before death.... there was no voice (second chance) given to you after death to say: Oh wow... NOW I BELIEVE!! .... I recieve you Lord as my savior!!

Maybe I'm not understanding the topic????