Jesus' divinity

[Guest shiloh357]

Can we become like Jesus Christ? Some would say 'yes and no'.

Aren't we to follow him?

Why are we so stumped by Christ's nature? Is his nature really a mystery? Logicaly speaking I'd say, yes, for those who hold to Christ's dual nature being one for it escapes reason. God's not the author of confusion though. He created logic and our minds with which to engage in.

If we cannot understand his nature which defines him then how can we really follow him or become like him?

How can we be like him if he is both 'fully human and fully God' (illogical anyhoo for if the two become one then his humnnity changes and is therefore not actually what is human...) when we can never even be God or have two natures that become one?

We born of water and Spirit.

Christ, was the Firstborn.

How does Christ's dual nature, both fullly man and full God escape reason? How is that confusion.

We do not follow Him on the basis of understanidng His nature. We follow Him based accepting what the Bible says about Him by faith. Faith says Jesus is God. Human, carnal worldly wisdom says, "Jesus can't be God; it doesn't make sense." One cannot deny that Jesus is God and be a Christian at the same time. The plan of redemption is predicated on the very fact that Jesus was God in human flesh. If that is not true, redemption is sham.

We are not commanded to be like Him with respect to His essence. We are certainly not commanded to predicate our obedience on "understanding" His dual nature.

[Mutzrein]

And that's OK too. I am but a simple man, not given to an academic approach. I can only relate what was given me by the Lord. I realise that with revelation of the Spirit there can never be adequate exegesis. If there could, then all the 'learned' men of Jesus time would have understood what He said.

Ghee you're so eloquent for a simple man. Wanna pass some of that over here?

I like what it says in Acts.

When they (the rulers, elders and teachers of the law) saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.

I would say there are many who know about Jesus but fewer, who having been with him, are really that aquainted.

And I would suggest that if you truly have been aquainted with Jesus, you would understand and believe His deity.

Well, I can say this. In the time I have known the Lord I have never had any revelation from Him that he is God.

I know him as the Christ, the son of the living God. He is my Saviour

[Guest shiloh357]

And that's OK too. I am but a simple man, not given to an academic approach. I can only relate what was given me by the Lord. I realise that with revelation of the Spirit there can never be adequate exegesis. If there could, then all the 'learned' men of Jesus time would have understood what He said.

Ghee you're so eloquent for a simple man. Wanna pass some of that over here?

I like what it says in Acts.

When they (the rulers, elders and teachers of the law) saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.

I would say there are many who know about Jesus but fewer, who having been with him, are really that aquainted.

And I would suggest that if you truly have been aquainted with Jesus, you would understand and believe His deity.

Well, I can say this. In the time I have known the Lord I have never had any revelation from Him that he is God.

I know him as the Christ, the son of the living God. He is my Saviour

[Mutzrein]

Nice copy & paste job by the look. But before we get into a protracted discussion / debate - something which I have no desire for because it would just be an academic exercise, and a waste of my time - let me say I have no issue with Jesus' divinity. It is his deity that I contend with.

Your last 'aside' point seems to jump to a conclusion that I believe Jesus was created. So I will put your mind at rest. That is not the case.

[Guest shiloh357]

Nice copy & paste job by the look. But before we get into a protracted discussion / debate - something which I have no desire for because it would just be an academic exercise, and a waste of my time - let me say I have no issue with Jesus' divinity. It is his deity that I contend with.

Your last 'aside' point seems to jump to a conclusion that I believe Jesus was created. So I will put your mind at rest. That is not the case.

Yes, it is a copy and paste from my study on the issue which I have posted in the study group forum. The fact is that the above information I have provided proves conclusively that Jesus is God. I realize that you can't refute and that is why you don't want to get into a "protracted" discussion about it, but Oh well.

Secondly, Diety and Divinity are not mutually exclusive concepts. Divinity is Diety. Diety is Divine. Divininty speaks to the nature of Diety, in the case God. To be Divine one HAS to be God. I don't know what mixed up definition of "Divinity" YOU are working from, but to say that Jesus is Divine but not God, is a logical and biblical contradiction.

Redemption is predicated on the Godhood of Jesus. He was and is not God, then our sins are not paid for. Christianity cannot exist apart from the Godhood of Jesus.

You need to start believing the Bible. The Bible presents Jesus as God, Jesus claims to be "Almighty God, no less, and you need to believe Jesus and lose these mixed up ideas you possess.

[Mutzrein]

Nice copy & paste job by the look. But before we get into a protracted discussion / debate - something which I have no desire for because it would just be an academic exercise, and a waste of my time - let me say I have no issue with Jesus' divinity. It is his deity that I contend with.

Your last 'aside' point seems to jump to a conclusion that I believe Jesus was created. So I will put your mind at rest. That is not the case.

Yes, it is a copy and paste from my study on the issue which I have posted in the study group forum. The fact is that the above information I have provided proves conclusively that Jesus is God. I realize that you can't refute and that is why you don't want to get into a "protracted" discussion about it, but Oh well.

Secondly, Diety and Divinity are not mutually exclusive concepts. Divinity is Diety. Diety is Divine. Divininty speaks to the nature of Diety, in the case God. To be Divine one HAS to be God. I don't know what mixed up definition of "Divinity" YOU are working from, but to say that Jesus is Divine but not God, is a logical and biblical contradiction.

Redemption is predicated on the Godhood of Jesus. He was and is not God, then our sins are not paid for. Christianity cannot exist apart from the Godhood of Jesus.

You need to start believing the Bible. The Bible presents Jesus as God, Jesus claims to be "Almighty God, no less, and you need to believe Jesus and lose these mixed up ideas you possess.

I guess you see my position as being contadictory because it doesn't agree with yours and it is probably because your premise doesn't allow you to see it any other way.

You see in a royal family, every member of the family is royal but being royal does not make the son of the king, King. So a son, although he is also royal, cannot be king because his father is on the throne. He is equal with the king by virtue of the fact that the King gives him that authority but he is always subject to the king.

In the same way, being divine does not make the son of God, deity. Deity is reserved for God. The Son is equal with God, since God has given him that authority, but his divinity and equality does not make Him God himself.

As far as the bible is concerned, I have yet to be shown anything that would deny me. Jesus is eternal. He is the Word of God. The agent, if you like, that God used to create all things. He is the great I AM

[HAZARD]

"Now show me please. Where in the bible does Jesus claim that he is

[Guest shiloh357]

I guess you see my position as being contadictory because it doesn't agree with yours and it is probably because your premise doesn't allow you to see it any other way.

I disagree with your position because it is contradicts the bible and is unChristian. You cannot be a Christian AND deny the Deity of Jesus. Nobody who TRULY believes the Bible and is a true follower of Jesus denies His Deity. Christianity is predicated on the Deity of Jesus. There are just some things about the Christian that cannot be compromised on. The Bible teaches unequivically about the Deity of Jesus and it is only your pride that refuses to believe the Word of God. You need to repent of your unbelief.

You see in a royal family, every member of the family is royal but being royal does not make the son of the king, King. So a son, although he is also royal, cannot be king because his father is on the throne. He is equal with the king by virtue of the fact that the King gives him that authority but he is always subject to the king.

That is nonsense. You cannot compare the relationship of Jesus to the Father by using a human royal family. There is nothing at all similar. Jesus and the Father did not pattern their relationship after human royal traditions.

In the same way, being divine does not make the son of God, deity. Deity is reserved for God. The Son is equal with God, since God has given him that authority, but his divinity and equality does not make Him God himself.

Only in your fertile imagination can such a thing exist. Jesus cannot equal with God but not be God. That is impossible. God says that He alone is God, and there is none like him.

Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

(Isaiah 46:9)

If Jesus were merely equal with God but not like God, then Jesus would be "like God," making Isaiah 46:9 to be false. Jesus is not merely equal with God. Jesus is God.

As far as the bible is concerned, I have yet to be shown anything that would deny me. Jesus is eternal. He is the Word of God. The agent, if you like, that God used to create all things. He is the great I AM

[gypc]

Isaiah 46:8 "Remember this, fix it in mind,

take it to heart, you rebels.

9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;

I am God, and there is no other;

I am God, and there is none like me.

10 I make known the end from the beginning,

from ancient times, what is still to come.

I say: My purpose will stand,

and I will do all that I please.

If this scripture is true and Jesus is not God then we need to throw away the New Test and go back to the law.......because Jesus calls himself "I Am" and look what John says...

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

John 1:14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

In Isaiah God says "there is no other"..........now if Jesus is not the God then the New Test is a lie..........but where do we get son from?

John 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Isaiah 9:6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus was the only one ever born on the earth that was born by the seed of God. ya see if God is going to be born on the earth then he must be born from himself. It was the only way.

Look at Is 9, even here it says that this son is Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace..............wait a minute...The everlasting Father?..................but I thought God says in chapter 46 I am God, and there is no other;.............oh ok............Jesus is God!!!!

[Mutzrein]

I disagree with your position because it is contradicts the bible and is unChristian. You cannot be a Christian AND deny the Deity of Jesus. Nobody who TRULY believes the Bible and is a true follower of Jesus denies His Deity. Christianity is predicated on the Deity of Jesus. There are just some things about the Christian that cannot be compromised on. The Bible teaches unequivically about the Deity of Jesus and it is only your pride that refuses to believe the Word of God. You need to repent of your unbelief.

Shiloh - you have no idea of my walk with the Lord. Pride holds no chains over me and for you to say that I (or anyone else) cannot be a Christian AND deny the Deity of Jesus, puts you in an invidious position. It is a position that says man cannot know God unless he accepts that Jesus is God. You see, my relationship with the Lord is not based on a doctrine. It is based on faith. And this is the righteousness that I have in Christ. Any other way is self righteousness. So I will continue to walk in the light of what God reveals to me and proclaim a gospel of righteousness by faith in Christ, irrespective of the judgment that others would endeavour to mete out. Your position before God is not my business, as is mine not yours. Each to his own master, stands or falls.