Are we commanded to cut our hair or not?

[Vickilynn]

'OC'

It does not matter to me how you responded to Butero for it was Butero whom I am pointing out that you put on the chopping block and said he made accusations towards you when he was just stating the way he viewed the things you were doing which I put in the above quote by me. As again someones views and opinions is not accusations if they are shared in the right way and Butero only spoke the things that he observed and again there was nothing wrong with him pointing out the contradictions in which he show even though you may have disagreed with him strongly on the matter it isn't being disrespectful or having a lack of grace to share one's views if it is then we all for sure need to be quiet. And even though you explained your position once again in your above quote I still do not agree with your view personally.

I would also in my view like to point out that the "hair" issue is doctrinal. As doctrine is any thing that is taught as anything can be taught and it is doctrine when it is there has been alot of doctrine in the very thread being taught about hair. So I believe you are wrong on that point as I stated why I believe you are wrong on that matter. I think the same approach should be taken toward all doctrine in general and that is the advice that apostle Paul gave to young Timothy to teach sound doctrine that all scripture is profitable for "doctrine" speak those things which become sound doctrine in order to save you and your hearers. You can't pick and choose for Paul said he had not shunned to preach the whole word of God to them. I believe the entire word of God is universal in it's scope and application again all scripture is given.

Again what were those false accusation of Butero as again I only viewed the post as him sharing his "observation" whether you like them or not I did not see him being disgraceful or disrespectful to you at all in the post.

I can't speak for Butero but I can for myself as I said above I do not agree that hair length is not doctrinal as again doctrine is anything that is taught just as you are "teaching" against it well that is your doctrine on hair length that is being shared all throughout this thread then there are those who are sharing their doctrine in favor of it so I do not agree that hair is not a doctrine and if it is not a doctrine like you are saying it isn't then you need to stop teaching your doctrine surrounding the issue cause it is kind of silly don't you thing to be teaching and opposing something that isn't even really real "Right" either way I don't agree with your view as I believe "hair' is a doctrine. I also believe every single word in the bible from front cover to back cover is God's inspired word of God all of it applies and is applicable and is profitable for............as I notice you want to ignore that fact as you say not everything presented in Scriptures is doctrine when the word of God tell us the direct opposite.

I read proverbs like I read the gospels and all the other books of the bible for that matter and I am not joking as the word of God has to be rightly divided no matter where you choose to read it at. I am aware there are types and shadows in the old testament I am aware of the beauty in the Song of Solomn and the glorious truths found in the book of Ruth and so many other things in the word. And I do treat the Law of Moses the same way I treat the book of Revelation I study it and study it some more and rightly divide it and learn from it. I just know even I read what you have to say here that I still agree with Butero as you can't just say something isn't applicable because it was only written to them and not apply the same application to the other things written in the other epistles as no matter how you slices that approach will always come up with pick and choose what doctrine you want to hear and shun the rest of the word if you don't want it. I would also that to point out that even though God used holy men of God who were moved upon by the Holy Ghost to pen the holy scripture with please in all of your book learning don't over look the real author of those 66 books that we have as being God Himself and His intentions. And again a doctrine is simply what is taught.

'

As far as the statement above about Vickilyn I don't think that applies to our discussion here at all so I want respond to it.

I have yet to see the doublestandard presented it is not a doublestandard if others disagree with you. Now it might not be well with you that others reject what you have to say and even tell you in their opinion you are wrong but it is not a doublestandard even if you try to persuade them and show them they are wrong and they still refuse and have a different opinion than you have it is no double standard one just has to accept it or wear themselves out debating it like I tend to do.

Okay, then I will hold you to that

I believe I know how a debate works. As even in this thread I have asked questions of other on their views and they will not present their case. Yes you can say that you disagree and state the reason why you think they are incorrect or wrong why do you not think you can do that. I have disagreed with some people before myself but it wasn't nesessarily because I thought they was incorrect or wrong it was because they didn't thourghtly convince me of their view and ultimately lost me in the debate. As there are still alot of things as I am still growing in the Lord that I haven't formed strong opinions over still yet so I am open to the things I hear. And one can present evidence and the opposing side may not accept that evidence cause of their own stubbornness and pride. I have never said no one has the right to voice their opinion and never will but others don't need to stiffle those who have differing views from them from speaking and well as both sides of an issue should be able to hash it out in a fun and loving but serious way. I personally enjoy in engaging in a good healthy heated debate and believe their is nothing bad or hateful about any of us but alot of people stoop low if they feel they are loosing I guess a good debate feels like a competition and we all are competive in nature we want to win. Some people don't want to learn and grow and therefore will not recieve evidence and even if evidence is presented we are to hasty sometimes in our judgment cause the person still may not have really gotten ahold of the truth we though we so skillfully and brilliantly layed out there for them to get and maybe we lack in our teaching skills and communication ability.

OC

Shalom!!

WOW! Finally! Someone who makes sense and speaks the truth!

[Floatingaxe]

this thread isn't even about hair length anymore. it's about tit-for-tat. it's about having to have the last word. it's become absolutely ridiculous.

the "cheering on" of members stink up the thread too it's not just the back and forth posts.

its cool to agree or disagree but the "hoorahs" doesnt show anyone knows anything just that they

make good cheerleaders. A "hoorah" is funny for a post or two however we can't forget this is the Word of God

and not fans cheering on boxers. ... 3xR0c|<stAr

[Vickilynn]

Look, I'll be blunt. Those who say long hair is against the Bible - you're wrong. 100% inaccurate. Wrong. Incorrect. Ignoring history. Refusing to use proper exegetical tools. Opposite of true.

I'll gladly sit there and say that, because it is true - there is NOTHING wrong with a man having long hair. Again, it is completely cultural. It was used as a differentiation between sexes, which relies on the culture. A Roman would have thought a Spartan effeminate because they (the men) grew their hair to their shoulders and then tied them up (ponytail) for battle. Any Greek, however, would have feared a man with such a hair, because it would have cried "warrior" to the average Greek.

An American would look on a Goth or Vandal and see long braided hair on both the men and women. The men's hair would obviously be thicker and dirtier, thus providing for a distinction between male and female. Though we might be offended by it, to their culture it wouldn't have meant a thing.

To apply this arbitrarily is to enter into the wrongness of the issue. My hair goes below my ears right now....is that wrong? Up until the 1900's, such a hair style was even allowed in the US Army. Is it wrong now? Is it sinful? Can anyone give me the scriptural specifications for how short my hair has to be? Or, conversely, how long a woman's hair has to be? Does this mean women have to forgo chemo-therapy because it will make them go bald?

Look, if you apply this scripture in a literal format, then you're wrong. End of story.

Shalom AK,

And I'll be just as blunt.

If you think someone is wrong about making hair length a doctrine, then that is your opinion. You're entitled to it. Enjoy it!

However, those who hold the opposite view have as much right to their position as you do.

G-d is G-d and He is able to lead His children.

Since this is not a salvation issue, so we must allow grace for differing convictions.

Romans 14

20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. 21It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.[c] 22The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. 23But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

[Floatingaxe]

Lots of stumbling around going on in here!

[Vickilynn]

Pease understand as I will explain this again. When it comes to my disagreement with Vickilynn, my point was that if she was going to say that if I am lacking in grace because I stated that someone is "wrong," then she should not be so one-sided in her rebuke. The point is that I can show where Butero says the same kind of things to me AND others, but I am the one she targets. Butero refers to my position "wrong" in one his very first posts on this thread, even though he mistakenly thinks that AK was the one who said it. He refers to Floatingaxes's views as "pure rubbish," but Vickilynn only zeros in on me. My point is the onesidedness of it all.

Shalom Everyone,

In the pursuit of truth, this false accusation must be addressed.

It is a simple lie and a deflective mechanism.

#1. Someone else's guilt does not negate Shiloh's.

#2. Vickilynn did not intentionally ignore any else's comments. She was not aware of them. However, that has no bearing on the validity of her comments to Shiloh, whose comments should be examined in the light of the Scriptures, not in the light of someone else's comments. The Bible is our example of how to behave, not Butero. Vickilynn did not "zero in." This is not a valid argument, but one of "drama" for being called accountable for their words.

#3. Shiloh is defensive concerning his own wrong actions by blaming someone else for theirs. This is not a Christian response. When we answer for OUR OWN actions before G-d, we do not say "Well, Butero did it first!" Sorry, that's not how it works.

#4. The truth is the truth. Shiloh must post the truth and not lies if he expects people to accept what he teaches concerning the Scriptures. One must lay down their own will and defer to G-d concerning the Scriptures and if Shiloh is unwilling to do that even in this discussion, then his teaching is suspect.

[Vickilynn]

Well, I found two verses that appear contradictory. I have heard that Leviticus 19 is referring to cutting your hair, how do we know that's what it means? Because if it does indeed mean "Do not cut your hair" then how can we possibly prevent a man from having long hair? And is shaving okay?

Leviticus 19:27 - Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

Just a note, the first part of this verse in the NIV bible makes reference to hair specifically, but in the KJV it does not.

1 Corinthians 11:14 - Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

I'm somewhat confused, help please?

God Bless,

Keilan

Shalom Keilan,

As you can see, there are varied views concerning this issue.

I encourage you to seek the L-rd and read the Word.

Personally, I believe the Bible is not saying that we, as Christians should never cut our hair. The verse in Leviticus is a specific command to a specific people of the Law.

The verse in 1 Corinthians does however indicate that long hair is a shame and we as Christians should be very mindful about doing anything that would bring shame to Jesus. Long hair is not a sin, not is it an area of salvation, so there is something to be said about giving grace as you learn about it. Seek the L-rd and see what He says concerning this for you and your household and then follow that.

Grace and peace to you,

[Floatingaxe]

The only thing that is a shame unto a man who lets his hair grow, according to nature, is the practice of being slovenly, and not taking care of the hair. When a man doesn't care for himself, and wash and trim the hair, it becomes a mess, and he is deemed slovenly and so it would be a shame to him.

Men who take care of themselves and trim the longer hair, yet keeping it longer, are not a problem. It's the "mountain man" look that is baaaaaaad.

This is partly what Paul was alluding to, I believe.

[Vickilynn]

Shalom,

I believe it has to do with the mixing of genders. It is a shame when a man looks like a woman (in dress, hair etc.) and vice versa with a woman who looks like a man.

These issues were relevant then (at the time of Paul's writing) and they are relevant now. We, as Christians, should be mindful about not looking like the opposite sex. This is a common practice of the world today and one we should avoid as Christians. I believe this is what Paul was referring to as well, "nature" is how G-d made us, male or female. We should not try to look like what is not "natural" to our gender by our long or short hair or anything else.

[mikado5001]

The only thing that is a shame unto a man who lets his hair grow, according to nature, is the practice of being slovenly, and not taking care of the hair. When a man doesn't care for himself, and wash and trim the hair, it becomes a mess, and he is deemed slovenly and so it would be a shame to him.

This is partly what Paul was alluding to, I believe.

Just because a man has long hair does not make him slovenly. I know long haired men who care for themselves better than their short haired brethren. Hair does not make a man. I have short hair. I know folks with shoulder length hair, bald men, waist length hair, and short hair.

I LOVE HAIR!!

She asks me why

I'm just a hairy guy

I'm hairy noon and night

Hair that's a fright

I'm hairy high and low

Don't ask me why

Don't know

It's not for lack of break

Like the Grateful Dead

Darling

Gimme head with hair

Long beautiful hair

Shining, gleaming,

Streaming, flaxen, waxen

Give me down to there hair

Shoulder length or longer

Here baby, there mama

Everywhere daddy daddy

Hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair

Flow it, show it

Long as God can grow it

My hair

Let it fly in the breeze

And get caught in the trees

Give a home to the fleas in my hair

A home for fleas

A hive for bees

A nest for birds

There ain't no words

For the beauty, the splendor, the wonder

Of my...

Hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair

Flow it, show it

Long as God can grow it

My hair

I want it long, straight, curly, fuzzy

Snaggy, shaggy, ratty, matty

Oily, greasy, fleecy

Shining, gleaming, streaming

Flaxen, waxen

Knotted, polka-dotted

Twisted, beaded, braided

Powdered, flowered, and confettied

Bangled, tangled, spangled, and spaghettied!

Oh say can you see

My eyes if you can

Then my hair's too short

Down to here

Down to there

Down to where

It stops by itself

They'll be ga ga at the go go

When they see me in my toga

My toga made of blond

Brilliantined

Biblical hair

My hair like Jesus wore it

Hallelujah I adore it

Hallelujah Mary loved her son

Why don't my mother love me?

Hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair

Flow it, show it

Long as God can grow it

My hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair, hair

Flow it, show it

Long as God can grow it

My hair

[exrockstar]

My hair like Jesus wore it

Hallelujah I adore it

Hallelujah Mary loved her son

Why don't my mother love me?

are there some emotional issues you want to talk about?

I'm sure she loves you... ... 3xR0c|<stAr