I watched the movie for the first time.

[apothanein kerdos]

I am not sure I should post this here, nor am I sure I should talk about this movie at all.

My son [15] has been studying the Holocaust in school and has to write a Thesis about one aspect of it. He has chosen the Jewish risistance during the Holocaust.

We rented a couple of movies to watch, in addition to the books and internet research. Naturally, we chose Schindler's List.

There is a HUGE difference between reading about it, and watching it. This version of Schindler's List is quite graphic, featuring Liam Neeson as Oskar Schindler and Stephen Spielberg as the director.

All I can say about it is that I am thankful that my son fell asleep early in the movie and has not seen it. I am not sure I want him to. There are some things that are too heavy for children to carry.

I am not certain why I am sharing this with all of you. I guess I was just so shocked at the graphic nature of the movie that I had to say something.

On the other hand, studying this aspect of the Holocaust has shown me some things about the lengths the Jewish people were willing to do simply for survival. It's heartbreaking and encouraging at the same time. How strong they had to be to do the things they did to survive. Things that they would never had done, under normal circumstances. They were not fighting for their personal rights or even the rights of their country. They were fighting for the right to exist!

Mate, he's 15...no offense, but at this point in life it's tragic that he doesn't know the true horrors of the Holocaust. Schindler's List, while graphic, doesn't even come close to depicting what occurred...compared to reality, it's rated G.

If you really don't want him watching it, then Life is Beautiful is one that isn't as graphic...but it's still heart wrenching and shows the truth of the Holocaust.

Some things are graphic, yes...but that is life. The Bible is equally graphic (how do you explain to him that Judah paid his daughter in law to have sex with him...and from this line we get Jesus?)...by this age he should be aware of the Holocaust. It is not some Hollywood production - it actually happened.

Also, if you want to deal with the resistance by the Jews, then get Uprising and have him research the Warsaw ghetto uprising. It's where the Jews fought off and killed Germans...though they were ultimately defeated.

[Guest Biblicist]

WOW, I must say I truly appreciate all your advise and I have taken it all into consideration.

While we already have all the resourses we need, two internet sources and one [optional two] books, the extra info will help us [him ] to make the thesis more through and complete.

apothanein kerdos, I just wanted to respond to your post.

While I agree with you that he is old enough to know about the events of the Holocaust and I have no problem with him learning about the atrocities that occoured. It has nothing to do with the graphic murder and treatment. I do not belive he is old enough to watch a rated-R movie. There were things in that move that were completely innapropraite for a 15 year old boy to watch. Especially my son who gets embarrassed at Victoria's Secret or bathing suit commercials. I tend to want to preserve his naivety for a little while longer. I am certianly not going to contribute to his delinquancy. Being aware of something is completely different than watching a couple in an extremely graphic "physical" scene. Which, by the way, had nothing to do with the plot. But knowing the director, and where it was made, those types of things should be expected.

We have watched Jakob The Liar and I will likely get Life Is Beautiful since it is rated PG-13. As for the rest, we will have to read about it. I feel that is enough for now. I am certain that this information will come up again later in his life and he will learn more as he gets older and is capable of carrying that type of load.

Again, thanks everyone for the great info and words of enocouragement. If you could pray that we use this as a witnessing tool for his Public School Teacher, that would be fantastic.

Bib

[Guest Biblicist]

I was thinking more along the lines of how he began regarding the Jews as cheap labor, then by the end regarded them as people he truly cared for.

I hope that heart change happened for real.

I was amazed by the change in his heart and mind about the Jewish people, and I cried in the end when he talked about how many other's he could have saved with his squandered money. But, changing ones mind about whether or not a person is human or not does not mean one's heart is changed for the Lord.

There is a site completely dedicated to Oskar Schindler. Here it says that he died at 66 and wished to be buried in Jerusalem because "My children are here. . . " I do not know if that means he accepted Christ as his saviour or understood the relationship with Christ was a personal one. Those types of issues are rarely mentioned in Holocaust conversations.

I was very touched when he gave the people time every Saturday to have their special Sabbath Day.

I am thankful that I got the book by Corrie Ten Boom The Hiding Place. At least we can hear from the perspective of a family that knew the Lord personally about the Holocaust.

[nebula]

There were things in that move that were completely innapropraite for a 15 year old boy to watch. Especially my son who gets embarrassed at Victoria's Secret or bathing suit commercials.

Oh! Now I understand . . . it was "the girl in the bed" scene stuff you are objectionable to. OK, I understand.

[Liz4JC]

My son's english class (9th grade) was reading books on the Holocaust. We rented Schindler's List for him to watch with us. Mostly because there was also a parent permission slip to watch Schindler's List in class. When he is at his dad's house, he watches lots of horror and other rated R films. So based on what his father has introduced him to, and the required readings have introduced him to, Schindler's List could only impact him on that it was based on actuall events. I also felt that if he watched it at home first, watching it at school could be less tramatic for him.

We also found it easier to watch by taking little breaks during the movie. However, just because I let my son watch the movie, by no means am I telling you to let your son watch it. It is up to you. While I agree that history is important, to include the Holocaust, the graphics in the movies should be kept out of school.

....the graphics in the movies should be kept out of school. What about the school shootings that have taken place already?

Liz4JC

[MorningGlory]

Schindler's List is VERY disturbing but it's something Christians and Jews need to keep in their minds. The Holocaust is something that must never be allowed to happen again. Those that deny it happened, the Iranian President comes to mind, are the tools Satan uses to blind us to the horror of the extermination of six million Jews. Makes it easier to plan the next one, IMO.

glory, Thanks for your reply.

While we should do our best to keep the actions of the Holocaust from happening again, I do not believe that it is possible. I read something that was written thousands of years before the Holocaust that I feel proves this point.

Ecclesiastes 3:9 History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before. Nothing under the sun is truly new.

Ecclesiastes 4:1-3 Again I observed all the oppression that takes place in our world. I saw the tears of the oppressd , with no one to comfort them. The oppressors have great power, and the victims are helpless. So I concluded that the dead are better off than the living. And most fortunate of all are those who were never even born. For they have never seen all the evil that is done in our world. [NLT]

Apparently, Solomon had seen Holocaust-like behaviors before. And I believe that we will continue to see this till the day of our Lord's return.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I really appreciate everyone's comments. They are quite helpful to me. I am still not certain that I will allow my son to watch this movie. As I said before, there are some things that are to heavy for a child to carry.

"It would be a pretty poor father who would ask his little girl to carry such a load. It is the same way, Corrie, with knowledge. Some knowledge is to heavy for children. When you are older and stronger you can bear it, but for now you must trust me to carry it for you." ~ Casper Ten Boom

One of the books we got from the Library is called When Light Pierced The Darkness ~ Christian Rescue of Jews in Nazi-Occupied Poland. It was written by Nechama Tec who interviewed many survivors of the Holocaust and the protectors as well.

I never knew why the Nazi's, and Christians [though Christian by my standards is not the defination used during this time] believed that the extermination of the Jews was an OK thing to do. I never realized the deapth of their belief that the Jewish community were nothing more than "rats" or sub-creatures, not even human. Even those who rescued some of the Jewish people still believed this, as they had been taught from birth. That the Jews were "filthy, liars, and thiefs, who kidnapped Christian Children for their passover sacrifices." To them it was as if they were just exterminating the rats, or possibly rabid dogs, that had moved into the neighborhood.

I think we could learn something here. Not about the Holocaust but about the way we speak to each other. To call someone an Anti-Semite is to say that they believe that the Jewish people are not human. I don't think there are any Christians here who believe that.

My father used to use "Anti-Semite" terms but I never believed, and still don't, that he thought of Jews as somehow less than human. It was just a term that he heard growing up. Many of the rescuer's say that these views were taught to them as they suckled on mother's milk. How can one break that type of attitude when it is taught from birth?

What I am most surprised at is the fact that these people who thought of the Jew's in such a way were Catholic. They call themselves Christians yet they do not act in a Christ-like manner at all. I am wondering where these Anti-Semite attitudes started. Was it at the foot of the cross? Was it later, or possibly earlier? Did it begin in the early church when the general public was unable to read the Word of God for themselves and relied on "teacher's" to read and translate it for them.

I realize one thing. The anger and attitudes toward the Indians and then the African-American community was only something that spilled over from the Anti-Semite attitudes. If it is easy to believe one group is not human, then it is easy to transfer that attitude to another group that does not look or act like you.

Aah, well, thanks for listening to my ramblings. This is an interesting study and I pray that my son and I become better Christians through it. I also pray that he is able to share the gospel with his Public School teacher through it as well. I pray that we will be able to portray the Anti-Semite message and shed some Christian light on the situation and the wrong attitudes of the time, and still are apparent today.

Well said, Biblicist. I hope that all Christians stand for Israel because, IMO, they are going to need us in the years ahead.

[Guest Biblicist]

My son [and I] finished his thesis about the Holocaust. He recieved an A++ grade! Again thanks for everyone's help. It is much appreciated.

[Guest yod]

Hi Biblicist,

Sorry I missed this thread. Thank you for starting it.

I just returned from a walk across southern Germany with a church and a bunch of messianic jews visiting the sites of 9 concentration camps, the last being Dachau.

I have 2 close friends who are Holocaust survivors (one born in a camp and the other was in the 5 worst) and know many who are children of survivors in the messianic movement. I also know the children and grandchildren of Nazis.

It is unbelievable what happened in those camps. The most sadistic nightmare you can NOT imagine was a daily reality for the jewish people. Yes, there were other people besides jews in the camps but jews were singled out for the most brutal of tortures. God forbid that you were a female in that place!?!

If anyone would like, I can PM a link to a powerful video called "The Forgotten People" that is part song, part documentary, part sermon in 6 minutes.

[Guest Biblicist]

Hi Biblicist,

Sorry I missed this thread. Thank you for starting it.

I just returned from a walk across southern Germany with a church and a bunch of messianic jews visiting the sites of 9 concentration camps, the last being Dachau.

I have 2 close friends who are Holocaust survivors (one born in a camp and the other was in the 5 worst) and know many who are children of survivors in the messianic movement. I also know the children and grandchildren of Nazis.

It is unbelievable what happened in those camps. The most sadistic nightmare you can NOT imagine was a daily reality for the jewish people. Yes, there were other people besides jews in the camps but jews were singled out for the most brutal of tortures. God forbid that you were a female in that place!?!

If anyone would like, I can PM a link to a powerful video called "The Forgotten People" that is part song, part documentary, part sermon in 6 minutes.

Yod,

I have been to Dachau, it is a powerful place. Especially when the bell rings. Earie. My husband used to work with a man who was either born in or just before they went to a concentration camp. Not sure which one. I just remember it was in Russia. He still has the tattoo on his arm, of course, and his growth was severly stunted from the lack of food and poor nutrition. My husband said that he was a difficult person to get to know and he took a long time trusting people.

We lived in Southern Germany, Ruit,Ostfeldern to be exact. We used to walk all the time. I have pictures of us in the grape vines above [hope I spell this correctly] Macs Nix corners. My German is so rusty.

The thing is, the Holocaust didn't end with the Jewish. It transfered here to America. They may not have put the Indians in concentration camps but the "reservations" had many of the same conditions, and certainly the treatment was the same. I don't think that the Jewish people were the first ones to be treated like this either. Man's inhumanity to man. Nothing new under the sun.