Is the KJV easy for you to read?

[HAZARD]

Hi Butero.

If I missread you or missunderstood what was meant by you and others on this thread I apologise to you and all others. But I think I know FloatinAxe well enough to know, she would not knowingly and or deliberately lie about anything or anyone.

Kindest regards.

Haz.

[HAZARD]

Hi Butero.

If I missread you or missunderstood what was meant by you and others on this thread I apologise to you and all others. But I think I know FloatinAxe well enough to know, she would not knowingly and or deliberately lie about anything or anyone.

Kindest regards.

Haz.

No problem Hazard. I just felt like my position was completely misrepresented.

No worries mate! These things happen on the net.

[Marnie]

I just got through watching a video promoting the TNIV, and they are very deceptive. They don't fully explain the changes made, and in addition, it is promoted as simply "Today's NIV" with the slogan "Timeless truth, today's language." This would easily fool someone simply looking for a new English Bible. It is put out by Zondervan, so it would be widely sold in their many stores. As far as the translators changing, I am sure some have, and likely some have not. It is possible for many that were responsible for the original NIV to still be active today. They would also be the ones responsible for the changes made to the NIV found in the stores today, changes you called improvements as a result of more knowledge. A couple of other interesting things to note is that 77% of those who read the TNIV prefered it over the original NIV and 72% found it easier to read. There will be a lot of people fooled by this new translation.

Now let's not go misleading the folks John. I have NEVER been a supporter of the tNIV. Ever. It is NOT the same as the NIV. As far as citing stats, what does that have to do with anything?? At least I got you looking into the NIV, but I hope you also reference websites other than KJV-only sites. You should get an unbiased view of that translation.

I agree with the deceptiveness of Zondervan's marketing of the tNIV. But that also has nothing to do with the merits of the NIV. It's sad that many Christian publishing houses are now subsidiaries of secular houses and are profit driven as opposed to mission driven.

And, furthermore, it should be noted that I am not banging the drum for the NIV, but for modern translations over the older ones. I happen to focus on the NIV because it's what I use most of the time. I also like the ESV (I think it is).

But, for your edification, here is the NIV translators. See how many names you recognize.

The NIV Committee on Bible Translation

The NIV Committee on Bible Translation (CBT) is a "continuing committee of fifteen" formed in 1965 for the purpose of creating and revising the NIV. From 1965 to 1983 the members of the CBT [1] were:

1. E. Leslie Carlson, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Carlson died in 1967 and was replaced by Larry Walker.

2. Edmund P. Clowney, Westminster Theological Seminary.

Clowney resigned in 1968 and was replaced by Robert Preus.

3. Ralph Earle, Nazarene Theological Seminary

4. Burton L. Goddard, Gordon Divinity School

5. R. Laird Harris, Covenant Theological Seminary

6. Earl S. Kalland, Conservative Baptist Theological Seminary (Denver)

7. Kenneth S. Kantzer, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School.

Kantzer resigned in 1969 and was replaced by Richard Longenecker.

8. Robert Mounce, Bethel College (St. Paul).

Mounce resigned in 1967 and was replaced by Youngve Kindberg.

Kindberg resigned in 1983 and was replaced by Donald Wiseman.

9. Stephen W. Paine, Houghton College

10. Charles F. Pfeiffer, Central Michigan University

In 1974 the "long-inactive" Pfeiffer was replaced by Kenneth L. Barker

11. Charles C. Ryrie, Dallas Theological Seminary.

Ryrie resigned in 1977 and was replaced by Ronald Youngblood (appointed 1979).

12. Francis R. Steele, North Africa Mission.

Steele resigned in 1969 and was replaced by William J. Martin.

Martin died in 1980 and was replaced by Bruce Waltke.

13. John H. Stek, Calvin Theological Seminary

14. John C. Wenger, Goshen Biblical Seminary

15. Marten H. Woudstra, Calvin Theological Seminary

During 1976-1978 there was "an expansion of the CBT for editing purposes" in which the following six scholars served as de facto members of the committee: Elmer Smick, Bruce Waltke, Herbert Wolf, Ronald Youngblood, Gleason Archer, and Roy Hayden.

In January 2002 the fifteen-member CBT included the persons listed below. Nine of these (marked with an asterix) had not been involved in the making of the original NIV (1978) or of its revision in 1983. This is the committee that produced the revision of the NIV known as the TNIV (2005).

1. John Stek, Chairman of the Committee on Bible Translation

Calvin Theological Seminary, Part-time Professor of Old Testament

Denominational Affiliation: Christian Reformed Church

2. Donald H. Madvig,* Vice-Chairman of the Committee on Bible Translation

Retired Pastor and Professor of Biblical Studies

Denominational Affiliation: Evangelical Covenant

3. Kenneth L. Barker, Secretary of the Committee on Bible Translation

Dallas Theological Seminary, Adjunct Professor of Hebrew and Old Testament Studies

Denominational Affiliation: Southern Baptist

4. Gordon Fee*

Regent College, Professor of New Testament Studies

Denominational Affiliation: Assemblies of God

5. Richard T. France*

Parrish Minister, England and Wales

Denominational Affiliation: Church of England

6. Karen H. Jobes*

Westmont College, Associate Professor of New Testament

Denominational Affiliation: Presbyterian Church of America

7. Walter Liefeld*

Tyndale Theological Seminary, The Netherlands, Interim President

Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Professor Emeritus of New Testament

Denominational Affiliation: Independent

8. I. Howard Marshall*

University of Aberdeen, Scotland. Professor of New Testament Exegesis

Denominational Affiliation: Methodist

9. Alan R. Millard*

University of Liverpool, England. Professor of Hebrew and Ancient Semitic Languages

Denominational Affiliation: Christian Brethren (Open Brethren)

10. Douglas Moo*

Wheaton College Graduate School, Professor of New Testament

Wheaton College, PhD Coordinator in Biblical and Theological Studies

Denominational Affiliation: Independent

11. Martin J. Selman*

Spurgeon's College, London, Deputy Principal

Denominational Affiliation: Baptist

12. Larry L. Walker

Beeson Divinity School of Samford University, Visiting Professor

Denominational Affiliation: Southern Baptist

13. Bruce K. Waltke

Regent College, Professor Emeritus of Old Testament Studies

Reformed Theological Seminary, Professor of Old Testament

Denominational Affiliation: Baptist

14. Herbert M. Wolf

Wheaton College Graduate School

Denominational Affiliation: Independent Baptist

15. Ronald F. Youngblood

Chairman of the Board of Directors, International Bible Society

Bethel Seminary San Diego, Professor Emeritus of Old Testament and Hebrew

Denominational Affiliation: Baptist General Conference

NIV Translators and Editors,

and their Institutional and Church Affiliations

The following list of NIV translators and editors is reproduced from the list sent to me by the International Bible Society in September 1993. The list does not always give the church affiliation of the persons listed. In a few cases there is no institutional affiliation given, but only a city of residence. Presumably, the names listed are all those who participated in the translation of the original NIV (1973-1978) or of the revision of 1984. Many of the people listed here are known to have had only a very minor role in the translation. -- M.D.M

1. Robert L. Alden. Conservative Baptist Theological Seminary. Conservative Baptist.

2. Gleason L. Archer, Jr. Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. Evangelical Free.

3. Glenn W. Barker. Fuller Theological Seminary. No church affiliation given.

4. Kenneth L. Barker. Capital Bible Seminary. Evangelical Free.

5. James R. Battenfield. Grace Theological Seminary. No church affiliation given.

6. S. Herbert Bess. Grace Theological Seminary. No church affiliation given.

7. Harvey J.S. Blaney. Asbury Theological Seminary. Nazarene.

8. W. Gordon Brown. Central Baptist Seminary, Toronto. No church affiliation given.

9. Donald W. Burdick. Conservative Baptist Theological Seminary. Conservative Baptist.

10. Frederick W. Bush. Fuller Theological Seminary. Presbyterian.

11. E. Leslie Carlson. Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Southern Baptist.

12. Philip S. Clapp. Western Evangelical Seminary. United Methodist.

13. Edmund Clowney. Westminster Theological Seminary. Presbyterian.

14. Ralph R. Covell. Conservative Baptist Theological Seminary. Conservative Baptist.

15. John J. Davis. Grace Theological Seminary. Grace Brethren.

16. Wilber T. Dayton. Wesley Biblical Seminary. No church affiliation given.

17. Raymond B. Dillard. Westminster Theological Seminary. Orthodox Presbyterian.

18. Ralph Earle. Nazarene Theological Seminary. Nazarene.

19. David Engelhard. Calvin Theological Seminary. Christian Reformed.

20. Milton C. Fisher. Reformed Episcopal Theological Seminary. Reformed Episcopal.

21. Lewis A. Foster. Cincinnati Bible Seminary. No church affiliation given.

22. Francis Foulkes. Bible College of New Zealand. Church of England.

23. Richard B. Gaffin, Jr. Westminster Theological Seminary. Orthodox Presbyterian.

24. Wesley L. Gerig. Fort Wayne Bible College. No church affiliation given.

25. Donald R. Glenn. Dallas Theological Seminary. Independent.

26. Burton L. Goddard. Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. Orthodox Presbyterian.

27. Louis Goldberg. Moody Bible Institute. Baptist.

28. David Gooding. The Queens College, Belfast, Ireland. No church affiliation given.

29. J. Kenneth Grider. Nazarene Theological Seminary. Nazarene.

30. Clarence B. Hale. Wheaton College. No church affiliation given.

31. Murray J. Harris. Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. Open Brethren.

32. R. Laird Harris. Covenant Theological Seminary. Reformed Presbyterian.

33. Everett F. Harrison. Fuller Theological Seminary. United Presbyterian.

34. Roland K. Harrison. Wycliffe College, Toronto. No church affiliation given.

35. Gerald F. Hawthorne. Wheaton College. Plymouth Brethren.

36. Roy E. Hayden. Oral Roberts University. United Methodist.

37. William Hendriksen. Boca Raton, Florida. Christian Reformed.

38. D. Edmond Hiebert. Mennonite Brethren Biblical Seminary. Mennonite Brethren.

39. Mark E. Hillmer. Northwestern Lutheran Theological Seminary. Lutheran, Missouri Synod.

40. F. B. Huey. Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Southern Baptist.

41. John C. Jeske. Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary. Lutheran, Wisconsin Evangelical Synod.

42. S. Lewis Johnson. Dallas, Texas. Independent.

43. Walter C. Kaiser. Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. Evangelical Free.

44. Earl S. Kalland. Conservative Baptist Theological Seminary. Conservative Baptist.

45. Kenneth S. Kantzer. Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. Evangelical Free.

46. Homer A. Kent. Grace Theological Seminary. Grace Brethren.

47. F. Derek Kidner. Tyndale House, Cambridge, England. Church of England.

48. Y. R. Kindberg. International Bible Society. Christian and Missionary Alliance.

49. Simon Kistemaker. Reformed Theological Seminary. No church affiliation given.

50. Meredith G. Kline. Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. No church affiliation given.

51. Fred C. Kuehner. Reformed Episcopal Seminary. Reformed Episcopal.

52. William L. Lane. Western Kentucky University. No church affiliation given.

53. G. Irvin Lehman. Eastern Mennonite College. Mennonite.

54. Paul E. Leonard. Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. Brethren.

55. Arthur H. Lewis. Bethel College. Baptist.

56. Jack P. Lewis. Harding Graduate School of Religion. Church of Christ.

57. Walter L. Liefeld. Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. Plymouth Brethren.

58. G. Herbert Livingston. Asbury Theological Seminary. No church affiliation given.

59. Richard N. Longenecker. Wycliffe College, University of Toronto. Baptist.

60. Allan A. MacRae. Biblical School of Theology. Bible Presbyterian.

61. Donald H. Madvig. Bethel Theological Seminary. No church affiliation given.

62. W. Harold Mare. Covenant Theological Seminary. Presbyterian.

63. William J. Martin. Regent College, Vancouver. Christian Brethren.

64. Thomas E. McComiskey. Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. Evangelical Free.

65. J. Ramsey Michaels. Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. No church affiliation given.

66. Alan R. Millard. University of Liverpool, England. Christian Brethren.

67. Leon Morris. Ridley College, Melbourne, Australia. No church affiliation given.

68. Robert Mounce. Western Kentucky University. No church affiliation given.

69. Roger Nicole. Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. American Baptist.

70. John N. Oswalt. Asbury Theological Seminary. United Methodist.

71. Stephen W. Paine. Houghton College. Wesleyan Methodist.

72. Edwin H. Palmer. Executive Secretary, NIV Committee on Bible Translation. Christian Reformed.

73. J. Burton Payne. Covenant Theological Seminary. Presbyterian.

74. Charles F. Pfeiffer. Central Michigan University. Reformed Presbyterian.

75. Robert D. Preus. Concordia Theological Seminary, Ft. Wayne. Lutheran, Missouri Synod.

76. Stephen M. Reynolds. Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. Orthodox Presbyterian.

77. Robert P. Roth. Northwestern Lutheran Seminary. Lutheran.

78. Charles C. Ryrie. Dallas Theological Seminary. Baptist.

79. Jack B. Scott. Reformed Theological Seminary. No church affiliation given.

80. Elmer B. Smick. Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. No church affiliation given.

81. Francis Steele. Upper Darby, Pennsylvania. No church affiliation given.

82. John H. Stek. Calvin Theological Seminary. Christian Reformed. [2]

83. Harold C. Stigers. Covenant Theological Seminary. Presbyterian.

84. Marvin E. Tate. Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Southern Baptist.

85. G. Aiken Taylor. Ashville, North Carolina. No church affiliation given.

86. Merrill C. Tenney. Wheaton College. No church affiliation given.

87. Gerard Van Gronigen. Reformed Theological Seminary. Christian Reformed.

88. Larry L. Walker. Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary. Southern Baptist.

89. Wilber B. Wallis. Covenant Theological Seminary. Presbyterian.

90. Bruce K. Waltke. Regent College, Vancouver. Baptist.

91. Rowland Ward. Ulvestone, Australia. No church affiliation given.

92. G. Henry Waterman. Wheaton College. Christian and Missionary Alliance.

93. J. C. Wenger. Goshen Biblical Seminary. Mennonite.

94. John R. Werner. International Linuistics Center. Reformed Presbyterian.

95. Walter W. Wessel. Bethel Theological Seminary, West Campus. Baptist.

96. David John Williams. Ridley College, Melbourne, Australia. Church of England.

97. William C. Williams. Southern California College. No church affiliation given.

98. Marvin R. Wilson. Gordon College. Conservative Baptist.

99. Donald J. Wiseman. University of London, England. No church affiliation given.

100. Herbert M. Wolf. Wheaton College Graduate School. Independent.

101. Leon J. Wood. Grand Rapids Baptist Bible Seminary. Baptist.

102. Marten H. Woudstra. Calvin Theological Seminary. Christian Reformed.

103. Ronald Youngblood. Bethel Theological Seminary, West Campus. Baptist. [3]

104. John M. Zinkand. Dordt College. No church affiliation given.

Literary Critics and Other Consultants

1. Edward M. Blaiklock. University of Auckland, New Zealand. No church affiliation given.

2. Frank E. Gaebelein. Headmaster Emeritus, The Stony Brook School. Reformed Episcopal.

3. Charles E. Hummel. Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship. Baptist.

4. Elisabeth Elliot Leitch. Writer. Episcopal.

5. Calvin Linton. The George Washington University. No church affiliation given.

6. Kathryn R. Ludwigson. Grand Rapids Baptist Bible College. No church affiliation given.

7. Alvin Martin. Fuller Theological Seminary. Christian and Missionary Alliance.

8. Virginia Mollenkott. William Paterson College. No church affiliation given.

9. Margaret Nicholson. Author-Editor. No church affiliation given.

10. W. T. Purkiser. Kansas City, Missouri. No church affiliation given.

11. Walter R. Roehrs. Concordia Theological Seminary. No church affiliation given.

12. Samuel J. Schultz. Wheaton College. Baptist.

13. John T. Timmerman. Calvin College. No church affiliation given.

14. Richard F. Wevers. Calvin College. Christian Reformed.

[sweetycakes]

I love the KJV.

Apart from the fact that it's supposed to be the most accurate version, I just find it nostalgic, having read nothing else in my teenage years.

It's a 'comfort thing' for me, I think.

I do read the NIV as well, sometimes....but nothing will replace the KJV, in my opinion.

It may not be the case for everybody, though. I suppose it's got a lot do do with what you have grown up with.

[Scarletprayers]

The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want

He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters

He restoreth my soul: He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake

Yeah, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil:

for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff the comfort me

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies; thou

anointest my head with oil, my cup runneth over

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life;

and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever

Now like I said, I grew up reading the KJ, and for beauty and majesty there is NOTHING like it. Have you read the 23rd Psalms in other versions.......................its still beautiful, but in the KJ its breath taking!

When I want to study or just read, I pick up the NIV, when my soul and heart need beauty, I pick up the KJ, nothing beats it.

And thats my take on the different versions.

[Marnie]

Thank you Marnie for taking the time to do all that research. The video I watched came from the publisher, so you may have viewed the same one I did. Regardless of who make up members of the CBT, the fact that a new translation that is intentionally created to cater to a certain group at the expense of truth shows the danger of new translations in general. It opens the door for abuse. The only thing I need to show me that the NIV is full of lies is to simply compare verse by verse with the KJV. It is full of distortions and ommissions. In addition to that, it tries to give the impression that some verses don't really belong. The same people that put out the NIV also put out the TNIV, and my point is that if this publisher has no more integrity than to intentionally create and market a distored translation to cater to feminists, I have no reason to believe they were any more honest in their translation with the original NIV.

And we arrive at your true thoughts. Why not just own up to it in the first place? Your opinion of the NIV (NOT the tNIV, we are in 100% agreement on that rubbish) is based on what you THINK or BELIEVE, not on an intellectual argument, or the merits of the work. On this, you are same as the majority of KJV-only types.

Book'em Dano.

[Marnie]

Incidentally, how can you possibly know what was in the mind of the translators?? Is this discernment?

[Floatingaxe]

Incidentally, how can you possibly know what was in the mind of the translators?? Is this discernment?

No..it's religiosity.

[TheoMike]

Come on you guys. This is why I will NOT debate this with anybody. NOBODY can win when the heart is involved. The Lord Himself could beam down and recommend a Bible and some of us are so set in our worldviews that we'd argue with Him!

Crystal, butero, Marnie, all of you have scored points. Can we just read our Bibles?? Or watch Gilligan, even?

[KeilanS]

Come on you guys. This is why I will NOT debate this with anybody. NOBODY can win when the heart is involved. The Lord Himself could beam down and recommend a Bible and some of us are so set in our worldviews that we'd argue with Him!

Crystal, butero, Marnie, all of you have scored points. Can we just read our Bibles?? Or watch Gilligan, even?

I've never heard of Gilligan. Maybe I'm just not old enough