Why is the 'Church of Christ' sometimes called a cult?

[wordsower]

Fiosh, you might as well give up.............consider who is doing all the bashing, who cares.

Guessing you think I'm bashing, I sat on it all night before jumping to a response and since you want to know who cares? I do. I was raised in a cult and spent 26 long years in that web of lies and I care if others are misled and deceived and placing their salvation in the hands of an organization instead of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

I stand firm on the fact that Jesus is the only way to the Father and any church that teaches otherwise is a cult. I make no apologies for that.

[Scarletprayers]

Ohhh I'm sure you do...........................I can feel the love.

[EricH]

Any church that teaches you have to do something other than believe in Jesus to be saved is a cult. Only Jesus saves, not baptism.

It's a cult.

(edited by moderator)

James 2:19-26 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Remember, we were given 27 books of the NT that is the Gospel of Christ. If all we had to do is believe then Christ would not have made a statements like these -

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The works of our faith that we are the keeping of commandments like the ones listed above. All of these speak of more than just believing in God. We actually have to do his will also. There are more examples if you want them.

None of the passages above demonstrate that anything but faith saves. Since you are insistant that we consult the whole word, perhaps we should look at a passage that defines exactly the relationship between faith and works:

For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift-- not from works, so that no one can boast. For we are His creation--created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 2:8-10 HCSB

Clearly, according to this passage, it is faith that produces salvation and that works come as a result of salvation.

The passages you cite above are either open to interpretation (For example in John 6:53 one must define exactly what Jesus meant by the statement "eat my flesh and drink my blood"). In the case of Mark 16 it is unclear if this section was ever a part of the original text, as the best and earliest manuscripts do not contain it. So it is unwise to base one's doctrine on the basis of this passage alone, especially when it contradicts the clear teaching on salvation in the rest of scripture.

[EricH]

I worked with several Church of Christ folks in Nashville. What I found with them is that they are terrified to go to another church, beliving that theirs is the only true church. They don't believe in any sort of instruments in church and think other churches are sinning by having them, they believe you HAVE to be baptised or you will not be saved. Even one told me that if you are on your way to be baptised and die in a wreck, you will go to hell.

Despite all of these wacky rules, I didn't find any of them to have a relationship with Christ or behave in a Godly manner at all, they just went to their ritualistic church once a week.

Any church that teaches you have to do something other than believe in Jesus to be saved is a cult. Only Jesus saves, not baptism.

It's a cult.

And your a Worthy Watchman...............................

You are correct wordsower. Any church or individual who believes that all who don't believe what they believe are going to hell is passing judgment on who does and who doesn't go to hell. Which is a judgment reserved only for God and a sin for us to do. That judgment alone is what seperates the COC (not the UCC) from the rest of Christiandom and makes it a cult.

Keep On Keepin On wordsower

No, this comes straight from scripture.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Tell me, why would anybody who believes the scriptures to teach one way want to fellowship with another church that teaches different or the exact opposite?

We are told not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers and trying to fellowship with another church whose teachings are completely contrary to what you are following will not work.

Somebody made the comment of the "color of the carpet". We find in the bible that we are supposed to have the understanding of the scriptures right. If we have the wrong understanding then we have the wrong application. That is why there are so many denominations with varying and contradicting church doctrines.

As soon as somebody points to me where musical instruments are to be used in worship in the NT we will change that. It seams that people are more interested in musical instruments (a carnal thing) than making sure that they are worshiping God in spirit and in truth.

These passage can point either direction. I happen to believe that you are adding to the gospel by adding works to it. From where I sit, these could apply to you. That is why these types of passages don't prove annything when used in a discussion like this

[EricH]

I worked with several Church of Christ folks in Nashville. What I found with them is that they are terrified to go to another church, beliving that theirs is the only true church. They don't believe in any sort of instruments in church and think other churches are sinning by having them, they believe you HAVE to be baptised or you will not be saved. Even one told me that if you are on your way to be baptised and die in a wreck, you will go to hell.

Despite all of these wacky rules, I didn't find any of them to have a relationship with Christ or behave in a Godly manner at all, they just went to their ritualistic church once a week.

Any church that teaches you have to do something other than believe in Jesus to be saved is a cult. Only Jesus saves, not baptism.

It's a cult.

And your a Worthy Watchman...............................

You are correct wordsower. Any church or individual who believes that all who don't believe what they believe are going to hell is passing judgment on who does and who doesn't go to hell. Which is a judgment reserved only for God and a sin for us to do. That judgment alone is what seperates the COC (not the UCC) from the rest of Christiandom and makes it a cult.

Keep On Keepin On wordsower

No, this comes straight from scripture.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Tell me, why would anybody who believes the scriptures to teach one way want to fellowship with another church that teaches different or the exact opposite?

We are told not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers and trying to fellowship with another church whose teachings are completely contrary to what you are following will not work.

Somebody made the comment of the "color of the carpet". We find in the bible that we are supposed to have the understanding of the scriptures right. If we have the wrong understanding then we have the wrong application. That is why there are so many denominations with varying and contradicting church doctrines.

As soon as somebody points to me where musical instruments are to be used in worship in the NT we will change that. It seams that people are more interested in musical instruments (a carnal thing) than making sure that they are worshiping God in spirit and in truth.

These passage can point either direction. I happen to believe that you are adding to the gospel by adding works to it. From where I sit, these could apply to you. That is why these types of passages don't prove annything when used in a discussion like this

That's your opinion by the way you choose to believe the gospel.

Again, this is not helpful. That accusation cuts both ways

[busdriver72]

I am a Southern Baptist pastor, and I once lived in a town where the Baptist churches were so liberal that the Church of Christ pastor was the only local pastor that I could relate with theologically.

All this talk about what we must do to be saved...let us be careful. The only bonafide work that results in salation is one that you and I cannot do. Christ Himself did the "works."

Consider 2 Cor 5:21.

In essence, it says that Christ was judged as though He had lived our sinful life so that we could be judged as though we had lived His life.

Righteousness does not come through a work.......Christ IS our righteousness.

Baptism does not MAKE someone righteous or sanctified.

Having said that however, why do we sometimes think that just because something may be a work....we think it is optional.

Keeping commandments do not save the soul.....yet they are not optional.

I was my father's son......my obedience didn't make me his son.....yet my obedience was not optional either.

Some say Baptist do not believe in Baptism......really? Then why are we called "Baptist?"

I do not believe the physical act of getting wet while being immersed in water by a pastor saves the soul, yet I do not believe that any command given by the Lord is optional. If someone professes Christ, I counsel them. If they cannot or will not give a personal testimony as to their faith in Christ, before the church of Christ, then I will not baptize them. If a person is apathetic, or refuses Baptism, I am under no obligation to consider them saved.

Personally, I believe baptism has nothing to do with the "putting away of the filth of the flesh" (sin, corruption), but it is an "answer," the response of a clean conscience before God...the response of some who has been made righteous and sanctified in Christ.

Baptism is inseperable from our testimony...our witness.

Personally, I know of know sincere, born-again believers in Christ who dismiss or neglect baptism.

Rather than worrying about unbaptized believers in Christ, I think a bigger worry are the baptized UNbelievers running around out there.

Edited October 1, 2007 by busdriver72

[Scarletprayers]

I am a Southern Baptist pastor, and I once lived in a town where the Baptist churches were so liberal that the Church of Christ pastor was the only local pastor that I could relate with theologically.

All this talk about what we must do to be saved...let us be careful. The only bonafide work that results in salation is one that you and I cannot do. Christ Himself did the "works."

Consider 2 Cor 5:21.

In essence, it says that Christ was judged as though He had lived our sinful life so that we could be judged as though we had lived His life.

Righteousness does not come through a work.......Christ IS our righteousness.

Baptism does not MAKE someone righteous or sanctified.

Having said that however, why do we sometimes think that just because something may be a work....we think it is optional.

Keeping commandments do not save the soul.....yet they are not optional.

I was my father's son......my obedience didn't make me his son.....yet my obedience was not optional either.

Some say Baptist do not believe in Baptism......really? Then why are we called "Baptist?"

I do not believe the physical act of getting wet while being immersed in water by a pastor saves the soul, yet I do not believe that any command given by the Lord is optional. If someone professes Christ, I counsel them. If they cannot or will not give a personal testimony as to their faith in Christ, before the church of Christ, then I will not baptize them. If a person is apathetic, or refuses Baptism, I am under no obligation to consider them saved.

Personally, I believe baptism has nothing to do with the "putting away of the filth of the flesh" (sin, corruption), but it is an "answer," the response of a clean conscience before God...the response of some who has been made righteous and sanctified in Christ.

Baptism is inseperable from our testimony...our witness.

Personally, I know of know sincere, born-again believers in Christ who dismiss or neglect baptism.

Rather than worrying about unbaptized believers in Christ, I think a bigger worry are the baptized UNbelievers running around out there.

Amen and Amen!

[Redefine_Me]

I am a Southern Baptist pastor, and I once lived in a town where the Baptist churches were so liberal that the Church of Christ pastor was the only local pastor that I could relate with theologically.

All this talk about what we must do to be saved...let us be careful. The only bonafide work that results in salation is one that you and I cannot do. Christ Himself did the "works."

Consider 2 Cor 5:21.

In essence, it says that Christ was judged as though He had lived our sinful life so that we could be judged as though we had lived His life.

Righteousness does not come through a work.......Christ IS our righteousness.

Baptism does not MAKE someone righteous or sanctified.

Having said that however, why do we sometimes think that just because something may be a work....we think it is optional.

Keeping commandments do not save the soul.....yet they are not optional.

I was my father's son......my obedience didn't make me his son.....yet my obedience was not optional either.

Some say Baptist do not believe in Baptism......really? Then why are we called "Baptist?"

I do not believe the physical act of getting wet while being immersed in water by a pastor saves the soul, yet I do not believe that any command given by the Lord is optional. If someone professes Christ, I counsel them. If they cannot or will not give a personal testimony as to their faith in Christ, before the church of Christ, then I will not baptize them. If a person is apathetic, or refuses Baptism, I am under no obligation to consider them saved.

Personally, I believe baptism has nothing to do with the "putting away of the filth of the flesh" (sin, corruption), but it is an "answer," the response of a clean conscience before God...the response of some who has been made righteous and sanctified in Christ.

Baptism is inseperable from our testimony...our witness.

Personally, I know of know sincere, born-again believers in Christ who dismiss or neglect baptism.

Rather than worrying about unbaptized believers in Christ, I think a bigger worry are the baptized UNbelievers running around out there.

Amen and thank you Brother!

[Massorite]

I worked with several Church of Christ folks in Nashville. What I found with them is that they are terrified to go to another church, beliving that theirs is the only true church. They don't believe in any sort of instruments in church and think other churches are sinning by having them, they believe you HAVE to be baptised or you will not be saved. Even one told me that if you are on your way to be baptised and die in a wreck, you will go to hell.

Despite all of these wacky rules, I didn't find any of them to have a relationship with Christ or behave in a Godly manner at all, they just went to their ritualistic church once a week.

Any church that teaches you have to do something other than believe in Jesus to be saved is a cult. Only Jesus saves, not baptism.

It's a cult.

And your a Worthy Watchman...............................

You are correct wordsower. Any church or individual who believes that all who don't believe what they believe are going to hell is passing judgment on who does and who doesn't go to hell. Which is a judgment reserved only for God and a sin for us to do. That judgment alone is what seperates the COC (not the UCC) from the rest of Christiandom and makes it a cult.

Keep On Keepin On wordsower

No, this comes straight from scripture.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Tell me, why would anybody who believes the scriptures to teach one way want to fellowship with another church that teaches different or the exact opposite?

We are told not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers and trying to fellowship with another church whose teachings are completely contrary to what you are following will not work.

Somebody made the comment of the "color of the carpet". We find in the bible that we are supposed to have the understanding of the scriptures right. If we have the wrong understanding then we have the wrong application. That is why there are so many denominations with varying and contradicting church doctrines.

As soon as somebody points to me where musical instruments are to be used in worship in the NT we will change that. It seams that people are more interested in musical instruments (a carnal thing) than making sure that they are worshiping God in spirit and in truth.

In Rev. 14:2 we see that there are Harper's harping around the throne of God and they do this 24/7,s. In Rev. 15:2 we see that even God owns harps and He has given them to the resurrected saints to play in worship of Him while standing before His throne.

Using musical instruments in the worship of God is not a carnal thing cardcapter. It is a divine thing and it pleases God when He hears them. It doesn't matter if the new testament tells us we should us musical instruments in the worship of God or not. Because it has already been established in the old testament that God wants us to us musical instruments when we worship Him. However it is not a commandment, it is our choice to do it or not. But it seems to me that if we want to please God we will do that which He says pleases Him.

The problem is not whether or not the COC uses musical instruments in the worship of God. The problem is why they choose not to use them.

The COC believe that because satan was a music minister who became full of pride, tried to take his bosses job, and fell from the grace of God. They also believe that it is a sin to us musical instruments in the worship of God.

The fact of the matter is that God created a music minister to minister to Him and since satan has refused to do his God given job, it has fallen to us to do what satan wouldn't. Which means it has fallen to us to do all that satan was supposed to do when we worship God Almighty our Father and Creator.

Since the COC refuses to use musical instruments in the worship of God for the reason they have chosen to use. They are rejecting that which pleases their Father and Creator for a reason that is in no way biblically re-enforced. Which among other reasons separates them from the rest of Christendom and establishes them as a cult. Why would anybody want to reject that which God loves?

[Smickity Smack]

Interesting topic