Does God love Homosexuals Too?

[Believer1997]

Matrix,

Hello. We try to listen and address valid questions seekers and nonbelievers have. I personally make every attempt not to categorize anyone and I think, if you are fair and listen closely - most Christians here do not either. I hope that, during your stay, you will ask questions that may help you in your life's search. God Bless.

[Guest shiloh357]

I am and I know that most of you here are fair and listen and don't insult those of differing opinions. I think that shiloh is just a little mad that the Inquisition failed to stamp out all non-believers.

Oh please... You needn't try to play the "peresecution" card. This has nothing to do with you being an atheist. I simply don't accept ridiculous assertions that masturbation is justifed simply because our hands can reach our genitals or that masturbation prevents child molestations; A claim that has no empirical data to support it but is expected to be treated as fact.

If you're solid in your beliefs than our questions shouldn't cause such a temper tantrum.

Its not your questions, but your responses and unsubstantiated claims that are the problem.

This has not about you being an atheist. It is about me not accepting your assertions as fact and not accepting gay, child molesting priests as Christians.

[Guest shiloh357]

That is not what I said. In this particular case, you claim you don't believe them, but you impotent to discredit them, so really have nothing intelligent, credible, meaningful or substantive to offer as to why they shouldn't be believed.

Due to your failure to discredit them their testimony stands as true by default, like it or not.

Yes I do. Sexual orientation cannot be changed. And there is mountains of evidence against your theory that God/god can. That's why I don't believe them. They may believe in God/god, but they're still homosexual.

Sorry but changed and transformed lives trump any "evidence" you think exists. God is not limited by or subserviant to what your evidence suggests.

[BlindSeeker]

. . . We're a growing number now that non-believing isn't a death penalty and we're no longer being religiously oppressed so evolution and science and reason can come through. . . .

Actually, you're a growing number because 1.) Population growth, and 2.) Wickedness was foretold to abound in these days.

Plus, the death penalty still stands for unbelievers . . . but the Father will go into that with you later is you remain unchanged.

Plus, be aware of things falsely called science. True religion never opposed it.

[~candice~]

That is not what I said. In this particular case, you claim you don't believe them, but you impotent to discredit them, so really have nothing intelligent, credible, meaningful or substantive to offer as to why they shouldn't be believed.

Due to your failure to discredit them their testimony stands as true by default, like it or not.

Yes I do. Sexual orientation cannot be changed. And there is mountains of evidence against your theory that God/god can. That's why I don't believe them. They may believe in God/god, but they're still homosexual.

Sorry but changed and transformed lives trump any "evidence" you think exists. God is not limited by or subserviant to what your evidence suggests.

Really, so you know for a fact that these people who "changed and transformed" no longer indulge their homosexual tendencies?

As a christian who really struggles with this issue, I have sought out, and found, many testimonies of men and women who have turned their backs on that lifestyle, and are now enjoying happy healthy marriages with someone of the opposite sex. Some of them claim to have their orientation completely changed, while others find a way to live the way God intended and deal with their temptations through prayer. When I get home from church I will find them again and give you the links, if you are truly interested.

Shiloh I want to continue the discussion with you but it might derail the thread.

Here is something in peer reviewed literature... http://www.worthychristianforums.com/Homos...e-f-t91948.html

Edited July 25, 2009 by ~andy~

[Guest shiloh357]

That is not what I said. In this particular case, you claim you don't believe them, but you impotent to discredit them, so really have nothing intelligent, credible, meaningful or substantive to offer as to why they shouldn't be believed.

Due to your failure to discredit them their testimony stands as true by default, like it or not.

Yes I do. Sexual orientation cannot be changed. And there is mountains of evidence against your theory that God/god can. That's why I don't believe them. They may believe in God/god, but they're still homosexual.

Sorry but changed and transformed lives trump any "evidence" you think exists. God is not limited by or subserviant to what your evidence suggests.

Really, so you know for a fact that these people who "changed and transformed" no longer indulge their homosexual tendencies?

Sure. One such person is Dennis Journegan, a famous praise and worship leader who has cut several CDs all over the world. He got saved, came out of the homosexual lifestyle, is married with Children and testifies that he has been entirely delivered from that that lifestyle.

I am not saying that EVERYONE who came out of that did not go back into it, but enough have been delivered and remain such to show that it can be done. God is our creator and designer and he can change anything about us that needs to be changed if we will allow Him.

Some try to change under their own power. I do not think a person can change their orientation in their own strength. Homoseuxality is a spiritual problem and requires a spiritual solution. It has to be a work of God.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

:th_praying:

:th_praying:

:th_praying:

[Guest shiloh357]

It doesn't prevent child molesters, but whose to say it wouldn't help (and I specifically mean the priests)?

Because MOST child molestation occurs in families by men who have sexual outlets. Again, you have no empirical data, just wishful thinking.

Or maybe had they been allowed to be homosexual they wouldn't be looking for an outlet in the worst way.

And that's not even counting the priests who have had affairs. And I never said it was fact (except that our arms do reach down to our genitals). How terrible it would be if our arms only reached half the distance.

Again, your assertion is just beyond ridiculous and I am not going to waste time or bandwidth addressing it. My intelligence is better spent on issues that have substance.

My assertions aren't facts, they're just a different view. Unlike you, I don't go out scaring people into my beliefs by spewing stories of a really hot afterlife.

So maybe we should stop putting out signs on the roadways warning people of dangers in the road ahead. Telling you what the consequences of rejecting Christ are is not a "scare" tactic. It is warning you of the danger ahead so that you can avoid it.

As for repenting, I'd rather not believe in a religion that allows rapists, murderers, pedophiles, etc to repent their sins and then be "allowed" into heaven.

So on the one hand, we should not warn sinners like murderers and rapists and pedophiles that they will go to hell, 'cause that just "mean," and at the same time you are also opposed to Jesus saving them and changing them into decent people and giving the eternal life so that they will no longer hurt people? If they all Jesusto change them and are saved, why shouldn't they go to heaven?

Either way we go we are wrong, according to you. If we just let them continue on without warning them ('cause it's "mean"), then they will continue hurting others. If Jesus changes them and saves them, then you are opposed to that as well, even if they stop hurting others. Frankly, your logic doesn't fly.

[Guest shiloh357]

God is our creator and designer and he can change anything about us that needs to be changed if we will allow Him

Oh! Like AIDS and cancer and Tay Sachs? Or do you just mean "spiritually"? You did say anything after all.

I said God can change anything about us that needs to be changed, if we allow Him. I was speaking within a moral context. God does heal every person of every disease ,but that is a different issue. As it pertains to homosexuality, God is more than willing and able to change a person completely and permanently IF they allow Him.

[~candice~]

That is not what I said. In this particular case, you claim you don't believe them, but you impotent to discredit them, so really have nothing intelligent, credible, meaningful or substantive to offer as to why they shouldn't be believed.

Due to your failure to discredit them their testimony stands as true by default, like it or not.

Yes I do. Sexual orientation cannot be changed. And there is mountains of evidence against your theory that God/god can. That's why I don't believe them. They may believe in God/god, but they're still homosexual.

Sorry but changed and transformed lives trump any "evidence" you think exists. God is not limited by or subserviant to what your evidence suggests.

Really, so you know for a fact that these people who "changed and transformed" no longer indulge their homosexual tendencies?

As a christian who really struggles with this issue, I have sought out, and found, many testimonies of men and women who have turned their backs on that lifestyle, and are now enjoying happy healthy marriages with someone of the opposite sex. Some of them claim to have their orientation completely changed, while others find a way to live the way God intended and deal with their temptations through prayer. When I get home from church I will find them again and give you the links, if you are truly interested.

Shiloh I want to continue the discussion with you but it might derail the thread.

I wouldn't go as far to say that their marriages are healthy. Or happy for that matter. I know of too many people in my own city that are homosexual, have gotten married and had kids, and then divorced later on because they couldn't live a lie anymore. And some were church-goers. That's why I don't believe they are no longer homosexuals. Bill Maher had the best interview with a "former" gay man in Religulous.

The existence of people who have tried to get out, and failed, does not disprove the existence of people who have gotten out. I've read their testimonies. You cannot just dismiss it because it is convenient for you. Throwing a blanket over all people who have gone through exit ministries and claiming all their marriages are unhealthy is just wrong and demonstrates a lack of logic and understanding.