Head "OF" or head "OVER" .....

[Emily~Anne]

One other thing I should add - even Jesus listened to Satan in the wilderness. Listening to Satan is not a sin because Jesus listened to him. However Jesus did not do as Satan suggested therefore hearing someone's words is not a sin, but following their actions to sin is certainly wrong.

Blessings!

Cheryl

Eve had to decide to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit in order to eat the fruit. Eve did not unknowingly choose to eat the forbidden fruit, otherwise you'd have a point. therefore, Eve sinned before she even ate the forbidden fruit.

Jesus never decided to disobey God when he was in the wilderness and Satan spoke to him. There is a difference between hearing something and actually listening. Jesus heard Satan, but did not actually listen and do any of Satan's suggestions.

Cheryls point was excellent. Listening was not sin. And in the case of Adam and Eve they had no idea that the serpent was evil or they might not have listened to him. Deciding to disobey is a different story. Yet, it was not sin until the thoughts were put into action. When desire has conceived, has brought forth the action, then is sin birthed. And WHEN sin is birthed that is when death is brought forth. That is when shame was known by them for the first time. It was the seal of their sin.

Eve was deceived into eating of the forbidden fruit. She did not realize this until afterwards. In other words, she DID unknowingly eat the forbidden fruit. Yes, she physically knew she was eating the fruit, but her understanding of what she was doing had been confused and befuddled by the serpent. The serpent being the cleverest of all people had drawn the woman into his web of deception by engaging her in deceptive tricky conversation. But whether unknowingly (as Eve did) or knowingly deliberately (as Adam did), the results were the same

[firehill]

One other thing I should add - even Jesus listened to Satan in the wilderness. Listening to Satan is not a sin because Jesus listened to him. However Jesus did not do as Satan suggested therefore hearing someone's words is not a sin, but following their actions to sin is certainly wrong.

Blessings!

Cheryl

Eve had to decide to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit in order to eat the fruit. Eve did not unknowingly choose to eat the forbidden fruit, otherwise you'd have a point. therefore, Eve sinned before she even ate the forbidden fruit.

Jesus never decided to disobey God when he was in the wilderness and Satan spoke to him. There is a difference between hearing something and actually listening. Jesus heard Satan, but did not actually listen and do any of Satan's suggestions.

Cheryls point was excellent. Listening was not sin. And in the case of Adam and Eve they had no idea that the serpent was evil or they might not have listened to him. Deciding to disobey is a different story. Yet, it was not sin until the thoughts were put into action. When desire has conceived, has brought forth the action, then is sin birthed. And WHEN sin is birthed that is when death is brought forth. That is when shame was known by them for the first time. It was the seal of their sin.

Eve was deceived into eating of the forbidden fruit. She did not realize this until afterwards. In other words, she DID unknowingly eat the forbidden fruit. Yes, she physically knew she was eating the fruit, but her understanding of what she was doing had been confused and befuddled by the serpent. The serpent being the cleverest of all people had drawn the woman into his web of deception by engaging her in deceptive tricky conversation. But whether unknowingly (as Eve did) or knowingly deliberately (as Adam did), the results were the same

[methinkshe]

"The reasoning that I have quoted in this entry is from copyrighted material by Cheryl Schatz on 1 Corinthians 11." Qote from "Inhistime" (Cheryl) Post 313.

I think that it is very important that Cheryl Schatz copyrights her material because otherwise it could be used by anyone without due acknowledgment and royalties to the author.

Thank God that His Word is free to all and has no copyright.

In Jesus

Ruth

Edited to give due attribution to the beginning quote I used from a post by Inhistime.

Edited May 25, 2007 by methinkshe

[OopsMartin]

So by this argument, men who think lustful thoughts would not be commiting a sin?

Good progression Emily. But do you remember Christ's words about that?

Matt. 5:28 27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Lust is indeed a type of sin, because it is a sin of thought. Hate would also be a sin of thought.

However, James outlines what I was saying:

James 1: 13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

Thing about Adam and Eve is that they were born into holiness and had no evil desires until after they ate from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But we all are born into a world permeated with the presence of evil. We live and breath it's fumes. It is very difficult for us to imagine the purity and innocence of the first man and woman.

[Openly Curious]

'Emily Anne'

Apparently Eve must have been capable of sin before she ate the forbidden fruit. Otherwise she never would have made it that far as to even decide to disobey God.

Yes, Emily Anne Eve was capable of sin before she ate the forbidden fruit as there was only one law that they both had to follow at that time. In bringing this up you bring up things that are hardly ever discussed and that is looking at Adam and Eve before the fall took place as they both had freedom of choice but that is a different subject that let's you see temptation in a better light than normal.

And I totally agree with Ruth that power and authority are NOT synonymous. I have the power to do alot of things, but not the authority. When you try to make them see synonomous, you make God's design of authority seem perverted. Putting a negative view on authority basically.

I agree there has been a negative view and slant being put on God's design of authority when it is a good thing a place of protection and security.

In Ephesians 5 it says that the husband is head of the wife, and it says that the husband ought to love their own wives as their own bodies. The head/body part is what has my interest. And then the verse that says we are created to be a a help-meet to our husbands. My hubby is my head and he is to care for me as his own body essentially? And does that connect to being one flesh as it says in Ephesians 5:31?

Posting the scripture for reference:

Ephesians 5:22-33 (New International Version)

This is one of my beloved passages of scriptures in the book of Ephesians as it teaches us not only the relationship between husbands and wives but it teaches us a mystery within it as well that being of Christ and the church and our relationship with him and it is very beautiful when it is taught and portrayed in the right manner in which it was intended.

Let me see if I am understanding you correctly your interest is in the head/body as your husband is your head and does that connect to being one flesh as it says in Ephesians 5:31. My answer to this would be yes it does connect as a man is rejoined with his rib and thus the man is completed by this joining together as women do complete the man and make him whole as even God said it was not good that man should be alone for I will make him and help meet.

Now I go one further with you on Ephesians 5:31 it says, For this cause (meaning marriage to be joined to another) shall a man leave his father and mother and shall be joined unto his wife and they two shall be one flesh. Now it says in (Genesis 2:24) Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh. No longer two but one body with one head.

But what I wanted to share was a greater truth found in the Ephesians 5 passage and that Christ left Father and mother Galatians 4:26--"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." Christ left his Father and home above to come to the earth and die on the cross so that the church the bride of Christ could be joined and reconciled to His side no longer seperated but one with our Lord as our sins were washed away and Christ is now head of His body the church His bride. Isn't that good.

According to the part where you said women were created to be a help meet I was unsure what you were asking in that regards but will give you some thoughts. In the garden before Eve was taken from man there were certain things that God had decided for man to do in the earth and one of those things was that man would have a family and fill the earth with people and that man would take care of the things he created within the world. That is simple so far need no genius to figure it out. Adam was the first earthly father and Eve was the first earthly mother on the planet. God had created things to bring forth after their kind have seed within themselves. But there came a time before Eve was created Adam realized he was alone and did not have a help meet to bring forth after his own kind in the world and that's when God created Eve and gave her to him to be his wife in the garden.

You see Adam was helpless to do what God said in regards to replenishing the earth for he didn't have a help meet to help him in that task. As the scripture says in 1 Corinthians 11:11-12 the men of the earth would cease to exist if the joining of the two sexes in marriage didn't happen and the women of the earth would also cease to exist. Because in the family of the earth it takes both male and females coming and joining together in marriage to keep the race going on.

But God did it in such a way where the man couldn't do it by himself as he needed a help meet to help bring children in the world.

Now I want to say loud and clear their is way more to women that just having children and for procreation purposes so don't take what i say here out of the context in which i am speaking

God also did it where a woman couldn't bring forth without the help of a man. And made them interdependent on one another. But man indeed needed a help meet for this very task he couldn't fulfill God's will without her.

I hope I have helped in some way and if I misunderstood something I am sorry please ask again.

OC

[inhistime]

One other thing I should add - even Jesus listened to Satan in the wilderness. Listening to Satan is not a sin because Jesus listened to him. However Jesus did not do as Satan suggested therefore hearing someone's words is not a sin, but following their actions to sin is certainly wrong.

Blessings!

Cheryl

Eve had to decide to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit in order to eat the fruit. Eve did not unknowingly choose to eat the forbidden fruit, otherwise you'd have a point. therefore, Eve sinned before she even ate the forbidden fruit.

Jesus never decided to disobey God when he was in the wilderness and Satan spoke to him. There is a difference between hearing something and actually listening. Jesus heard Satan, but did not actually listen and do any of Satan's suggestions.

Cheryls point was excellent. Listening was not sin. And in the case of Adam and Eve they had no idea that the serpent was evil or they might not have listened to him. Deciding to disobey is a different story. Yet, it was not sin until the thoughts were put into action. When desire has conceived, has brought forth the action, then is sin birthed. And WHEN sin is birthed that is when death is brought forth. That is when shame was known by them for the first time. It was the seal of their sin.

Eve was deceived into eating of the forbidden fruit. She did not realize this until afterwards. In other words, she DID unknowingly eat the forbidden fruit. Yes, she physically knew she was eating the fruit, but her understanding of what she was doing had been confused and befuddled by the serpent. The serpent being the cleverest of all people had drawn the woman into his web of deception by engaging her in deceptive tricky conversation. But whether unknowingly (as Eve did) or knowingly deliberately (as Adam did), the results were the same

[inhistime]

"The reasoning that I have quoted in this entry is from copyrighted material by Cheryl Schatz on 1 Corinthians 11."

I think that it is very important that Cheryl Schatz copyrights her material because otherwise it could be used by anyone without due acknowledgment and royalties to the author.

Thank God that His Word is free to all and has no copyright.

In Jesus

Ruth

Hi Ruth,

I was told this morning from the admin to this board that I am not allowed to link to my blog where I have many articles on this subject. I was also told that I must give credit to any copyrights and since I have authored a DVD series that is copyrighted I must credit myself. Does that make sense?

Yes, I too am wonderfully glad that God's word is free. It is not only free, but it sets us free.

Blessings to you sister,

Cheryl

[OopsMartin]

"The reasoning that I have quoted in this entry is from copyrighted material by Cheryl Schatz on 1 Corinthians 11."

I think that it is very important that Cheryl Schatz copyrights her material because otherwise it could be used by anyone without due acknowledgment and royalties to the author.

Thank God that His Word is free to all and has no copyright.

In Jesus

Ruth

Good point. we might want to read copyright laws to clarify. From my recollection, if it is written (not spoken) there is already a copyright of a sort attached. So any blog of yours is considered copyright material. And really any post could be also. That is why I gave credit to Cheryl's comment in a blog when I reposted it. I don't know if they've yet changed copyright laws to include posts in forums. It's a new genre. BUT, it's always a good idea to both give credit when using reposts and to put a copyright on one's own blog.

I think I'd better find my blog and do that right now.

[methinkshe]

"The reasoning that I have quoted in this entry is from copyrighted material by Cheryl Schatz on 1 Corinthians 11."

I think that it is very important that Cheryl Schatz copyrights her material because otherwise it could be used by anyone without due acknowledgment and royalties to the author.

Thank God that His Word is free to all and has no copyright.

In Jesus

Ruth

Hi Ruth,

I was told this morning from the admin to this board that I am not allowed to link to my blog where I have many articles on this subject. I was also told that I must give credit to any copyrights and since I have authored a DVD series that is copyrighted I must credit myself. Does that make sense?

Yes, I too am wonderfully glad that God's word is free. It is not only free, but it sets us free.

Blessings to you sister,

Cheryl

No. A request by the mods to not link your personal blog does not imply that every point of debate that you make should reference your copyright material - at least, that's how I see it.

In Jesus,

Ruth

[inhistime]

"The reasoning that I have quoted in this entry is from copyrighted material by Cheryl Schatz on 1 Corinthians 11."

I think that it is very important that Cheryl Schatz copyrights her material because otherwise it could be used by anyone without due acknowledgment and royalties to the author.

Thank God that His Word is free to all and has no copyright.

In Jesus

Ruth

Hi Ruth,

I was told this morning from the admin to this board that I am not allowed to link to my blog where I have many articles on this subject. I was also told that I must give credit to any copyrights and since I have authored a DVD series that is copyrighted I must credit myself. Does that make sense?

Yes, I too am wonderfully glad that God's word is free. It is not only free, but it sets us free.

Blessings to you sister,

Cheryl

No. A request by the mods to not link your personal blog does not imply that every point of debate that you make should reference your copyright material - at least, that's how I see it.

In Jesus,

Ruth

Hi,

Since I only referenced the copyrighted material once and yet have written many times on different points of the debate, I would think that we are in agreement.

These bulletin boards are lots of fun, but so time consuming! I am off to help my dear husband who is in need of my helper abilities so I will be away from this discussion till probably late tonight. It has been a pleasure to clear up any misconceptions and to give my thoughts too on good biblical texts. What a wonderful format that we have here on this discussion board! We have such an opportunity as brothers and sisters in Christ to love each other even though we can strongly disagree. That is grace in action and boy, we all need grace.

Blessings!

Cheryl