Great Book

[JesusisGod2]

I do look at this in the way you speak of also. However, when you speak of the ancient Babylonian's eagle these are not the wings that will carry Israel to a place of safety. Only America's eagle wings will do that.

Hi Dove,

I definately dont believe that the eagles wings are of babylon, I was just stating a bizzare coincidence in that ancient babylon had the symbol of the lion and the eagle.

Now as for the wings that carry Israel off, I have heard that this could be speaking of America but have also heard that this is the Lord Himself. Its really unclear.

Either way, there will be a rebirth of the Nation of Israel as being born again. I believe that the number that is spoke of is that 1/3 of the Nation will turn to Christ.

This is a great study and I appreciate your input Dove, I love learning ofprophecy and God has put together a great bunch of people on these boards with a knowledge of what is in store.

Some has this piece, some that piece and when we come together and share what we have learned, God paints a bigger picture for all of us.

God bless

Kevin

[godrulz]

I have not read the book so am making superficial judgments by way of principle.

A friendly reminder that the allegorical method leads to subjective interpretations and eisogesis (reading our ideas back into the text) rather than sound, normative literal exegesis (pulling the one intended meaning out from the inspired text and then making a modern application based on principles).

Sometimes the Bible will interpret the symbols later in the text. e.g. Daniel 7 says that the beasts (7:17) are 4 kingdoms...these were Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome. The eagle wings are incidental or an image of an aspect of something related to the historical kingdom. This would be established by other books and verses. Reading England or America back in these prophecies is sheer speculation at best and error at worst.

I have seen speculative prophecy books come and go for 25 years. They are subjective and conflicting in interpretation.

There is no doubt that America will have an end-time role, but was it specifically a fulfillment of verses in context?

In our zeal to love and serve God's nation of Israel, we should also be careful to not assume that everything Israel does is godly or condoned by God. This also applies to American politics and foreign policy. Overall, these nations have the hand of God on them but are also subject to judgment and discipline.

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem and America...and be wise so we rightly handle the Word of truth.

Know this from prophecy:

i) Jesus will return.

ii) Occupy until He does return.

[Guest dove2]

I do look at this in the way you speak of also. However,  when you speak of the ancient Babylonian's eagle these are not the wings that will carry Israel to a place of safety. Only America's eagle wings will do that.

Hi Dove,

I definately dont believe that the eagles wings are of babylon, I was just stating a bizzare coincidence in that ancient babylon had the symbol of the lion and the eagle.

Now as for the wings that carry Israel off, I have heard that this could be speaking of America but have also heard that this is the Lord Himself. Its really unclear.

Either way, there will be a rebirth of the Nation of Israel as being born again. I believe that the number that is spoke of is that 1/3 of the Nation will turn to Christ.

This is a great study and I appreciate your input Dove, I love learning ofprophecy and God has put together a great bunch of people on these boards with a knowledge of what is in store.

Some has this piece, some that piece and when we come together and share what we have learned, God paints a bigger picture for all of us.

God bless

Kevin

Either way you are right. I would love to see the nation of Israel (no matter how many there are) born again. I can't imagine the excitement I would experience even if it is in tribulation. I love prophecy also and love to hear what all have to say. I agree with you 100% Kevin.

[RGR]

This is no doubt an interesting book. I do not believe America is prophesied explicitly in the Bible. This is a subjective view based on the subjective allegorical method of interpretation. The literal, grammatical, contextual, historical method will lead to different conclusions. Israel, not America, is the key to Bible prophecy. I am Canadian. America seems to think it is the center of the universe. The Bible is a Middle Eastern revelation. America will have a role in end time events, but is not the focus of prophecy.

Mormonism is an American religion and prophesies about America.

Herbert W. Armstrong (World Wide Church of God; Plain Truth) developed the heretical British-Israelism doctrine and also had America read back into prophecy.

There is allegory in the Bible, but the allegorical commentators of the past came up with bizarre, fanciful interpretations due to their faulty hermeneutic (interpretation). Cults like JWs also use the method to give their organizations a place in Bible prophecy and the book of Revelation.

'Warning, danger, Will Smith...' (I have not read the book, but smell a rat).

While I don't agree with the America/Lost Tribe debate, don't give Armstrong credit for where it's not due. I was once involved in that stuff and was doing some research last fall. It seems that ole Herbert plagarized much of his stuff from the 7th Day Adventist. Here's the site I found the info:

http://www.herbertwarmstrong.com

[JesusisGod2]

Hi Ron,

I have read quite a bit of this book now and I really havent read where he is saying anything about there even being a lost tribe of Israel.

But he does make an interesting observation of the two sticks in Ezekiel chapter 37 concerning the two sticks in chapter 4 of his book.

This guy has some really interesting insights throughout what I have read thus far. I am not saying that he is totally correct in what he says, but have yet to read anything that he dont back up with scripture.

Should someone read and see any error in his teaching, please make me aware of the error for I have been recomending the chapters that I have read. This guy seems pretty solid, but no-one is beyond error save Jesus.

I do highly recomend reading chapters 2-5, its really pretty deep, there is no doubt in my mind that this man is of God.

I really love his love and compassion for Israel, he is not one who is building up the United States as I have heard some preach.

But he does present Gods love and compassion of Israel and How God will again turn To Israel, and this will make the body of Christ complete, and through Israel we will experience the fullness of Christ's blessing.

I am really enjoying this study, let me know your thoughts.

In Jesus

Kevin

[Guest Shilo]

from what I have read it blows the theory of the replacement theology out of the water....which I never ever believed that the Church was replacing Israel in the first place ....for one scripture keeps my focus on the false teaching of replacement theology is this

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Israel is not forgotten or replaced for that matter.... God still has big plans for them....

OOHHH how I love the word of God and the God of Israel.....we are grafted in ...but don't go by what I say just read Romans 11 and you will understand why Israel has not been replaced.

[JesusisGod2]

Amen Shilo,

I have never believed in replacement theology either, and you are right this guy is definately not speaking of replacement theology, but he is putting Israel in its proper place.

Israel was and is the apple of Gods eye, His main focus.

In Chapter 3 of this book Spurgeon talks of what Paul says about Israel. We the church will experience the fulness of the blessing when Israel is saved and Israel will share the burdon of the gospel and many will come to Christ as a result.

This book definately dosent put Israel as a second class citizen, but as a people that the church needs in order to experience the fullness of the blessing. We need to pray to God for the salvation of Israel.

We recieved the gospel from Israel and have obtained Gods mercy, we in turn need to present the gospel to Israel that they may obtain mercy, God has not turned His back on Israel. They will be saved, God says so and I believe it and look forward to it.

Pray for the peace of Israel, you will be blessed by it.

In Jesus

Kevin

[Guest Shilo]

Amen and Praise the Lord God of Israel.....

[JesusisGod2]

Amen and Praise the Lord God of Israel.....

Hey Shilo,

Man you have just got read this chapter in particular, this man is in full agreement with what I believe to be true and from the sounds of you as well

When Zion Travails

This is totally awesome insight into the restoration of Israel and many souls coming to Christ as a result of it.

I am really enjoying this book he points out some really exciting things that God is about to do. Pray for the peace of Israel.

In Jesus

Kevin

[Guest Shilo]

I will get right on that and let you know my thoughts after...thanks