John 17

[Gerioke]

John 17: 1 These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify your Son, that your Son also may glorify you:

2 As you have given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as you have given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

4 I have glorified you on the earth: I have finished the work which you gave me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was.

Does this indicate that Jesus' status changed when the world was formed?

[EricH]

No, I think it is a statement that indicates the length of time that Jesus has been in existance. In other words it is a statement about His eternal nature

[methinkshe]

No, I think it is a statement that indicates the length of time that Jesus has been in existance. In other words it is a statement about His eternal nature

I agree. The other verse (name and address escapes me, as usual) that testifies to Jesus' eternal status is when He says: "Before Abraham was, I AM!". Not only does Jesus testify to His own eternal status, He also calls Himself "I AM" one of the names of God - a wonderful Jesus-is-God proof verse, I always think. It makes me shiver with awe just to think of Jesus saying those words; how much more powerful effect must it have had on those who heard them from His mouth?

In Jesus,

Ruth

[Leonard]

The literal Greek is: "In front of the down-casting of the system." Puts a little different slant on our thinking, doesn't it?

[methinkshe]

The literal Greek is: "In front of the down-casting of the system." Puts a little different slant on our thinking, doesn't it?

Sorry, I have lost you. The literal Greek for WHAT is "In front of the down-casting of the system." ? Could you give me the Biblical reference for the verse you are speaking of? Thank you.

In Jesus,

Ruth

[EricH]

No, I think it is a statement that indicates the length of time that Jesus has been in existance. In other words it is a statement about His eternal nature

I agree. The other verse (name and address escapes me, as usual) that testifies to Jesus' eternal status is when He says: "Before Abraham was, I AM!". Not only does Jesus testify to His own eternal status, He also calls Himself "I AM" one of the names of God - a wonderful Jesus-is-God proof verse, I always think. It makes me shiver with awe just to think of Jesus saying those words; how much more powerful effect must it have had on those who heard them from His mouth?

In Jesus,

Ruth

John 8:58

[Openly Curious]

'Gerioke'

John 17: 1 These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify your Son, that your Son also may glorify you:

2 As you have given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as you have given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

4 I have glorified you on the earth: I have finished the work which you gave me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was.

Does this indicate that Jesus' status changed when the world was formed?

I would say it was just the opposite as Jesus status was manifested and know to the world when the world was formed. As Jesus is the "Word" and the "Word" was in the bosom of the Father. Thus telling us that everything that God spoke forth came into existence by the "Word" being Christ Jesus. So Christ was manifested to this world since the foundation of the world. The word became flesh and dwelt among us as Jesus went to the cross and now is highly exalted as it speaks about in Ephesians.

OC

[Leonard]

The literal Greek is: "In front of the down-casting of the system." Puts a little different slant on our thinking, doesn't it?

Sorry, I have lost you. The literal Greek for WHAT is "In front of the down-casting of the system." ? Could you give me the Biblical reference for the verse you are speaking of? Thank you.

In Jesus,

Ruth

Sorry, I seem to have lost myself as well! I meant to write: "Jesus spoke of things happening '...before the foundation of the world', for which the literal Greek is...........etc."

[HAZARD]

John 17: 1 These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify your Son, that your Son also may glorify you:

2 As you have given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as you have given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

4 I have glorified you on the earth: I have finished the work which you gave me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was.

Does this indicate that Jesus' status changed when the world was formed?

Jesus Christ has existed throughout all eternity past, untill He divested Himself of His Spirit body and became a man. As God He has always existed. But, as a man, in taking human form, flesh and blood, He had a beginning. "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1). "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth" (John 1:14).

Scripture, show that Jesus Christ was one of the three divine persons of the Deity and that as God he had no beginning.

Mic. 5:2 states He existed from all eternity.

John states of Him as existing in the very beginning with the Father (John 1;1-5).

Jesus Himself said He was before Abraham, and before the World was created (John 8:58; 17:5, 24).

Paul states Christ as existing before all things and as the creator and upholder of all things (Col. 1:15-18; Heb. 1:1-3, 8; 2:10). God the Father created all things by Jesus (Eph. 3:9).

Divine names are ascribed to Him.

These divine names and titles proves that He is by nature divine and a member of the Godhead.

He is called God and Immanuel in (Matt. 1:23; John 1:1; 20:28 and Acts 20:28).

Christ the Lord (Luke 2:26); The Son of God (Matt. 4:3; 14:33; Luke 22:70; John 1:34; Rom. 1:4). He is called "MY SON" by the Father in (Matt. 3:17); The only begotten Son (John 1:18; 3:16-18; 1 John 4:9).

He is called the First and the Last. Alpha and Omega, The beginning and Ending (Rev. 22:12, 13, 16). The Lord (Acts9:17); The Son of the Highest (Luke 1:32; Mark 14:61).

The Holy Child Jesus (Acts 4:30); King of Kings and Lord of Lords (Rev. 19:16); Lord and Savious (2 Peter 3:2); and The Word Of God (Rev. 19:13), and many more such titles show He is a member of the Divine Godhead.

In Phil. 2:5-11 Paul speaks of Christ being in God's form and that He laid aside this form and limited His attributes and powers as God to become a man. These powers were given back to Him when He was exalted to the highest place with God, (Coll. 3:1; Mark 16:19), after His lowest humiliation and limitation before God-even to do nothing, say nothing, be nothing and depend entirely upon God the Father for needed grace for body, soul, and spirit, and make a sucess of the work the Father sent Him into the world to do (Phil 2:9-11; Eph. 1:21-23; Col. 1:15-24; 1 Pet. 3:22). We know He did not keep His powers and position whilst a man, else He could not have been exalted back to it.

If He had not laid aside all His Glory and power He could not have had it restored to Him as stated in John 17:5. If He had retained all His riches while on Earth He could not have become poor for our sakes as taught in 2 Cor. 8:9. If He had kept His divine form He could not have taken on human form as taught by Phil. 2:5-11.

His incarnation proves He was limited as a man and grew to manhood as we all do, and He developed normally as any other human child. All the traditional theories of Him making toy birds and animals of mud and breathing life into them so they became real creatures and ran and flew away, and the many other miraculous powers He allegedly had from birth are mere theories and traditions made up by suspicious pagans to make Him equal with their pagan gods. He was a normal man as we are, and He did no miraculous works untill He was anointed fully by the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:16-17; John 2:11).

After Jesus was annointed by the Holy Spirit to the full, He then posessed all the gifts and Graces of the Holy Spirit to the full, and He demonstrated what being like God among men really is like and He encouraged one and all who aspire to this exalted position, of sons of God with Power (John 3:34; Acts 10:38).

He laid aside His natural and divine attributes, and their use, and became a perfect example of yieldedness to God and His Spirit to overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil (Heb. 10:5-9; Acts 10:38).

Regarding His Humanity. Human names were ascribed to Him. Rabboni (John 20:16), Jesus (Matt. 1:21), Son of Abraham and David (Matt. 1:1), Seed and Offspring of David(Rom. 1:3; Rev. 5:5; 22:16). The second man and the Last Adam (1 Cor. 15:45-47). The King of the Jews (Matt. 2:2).

He was called a "BABE," a "CHILD," and a "MAN" (Luke 2:16; Isa. 9:6; Acts 17:31; 1 Tim. 2L4-5; Rom. 5:12-21; John 8:40; Acts 2:22; 1 Cor. 15:21, 45-47).

It was prophecied that He would be born of a human mother (Gen. 3:15; Isa. 7:14; 9:6-7; 11:1; 53:1-12; Ps. 22).

And He had flesh and blood like all other men (John 1:14; Heb. 2:14-15; 1 John 4:1-6; Luke 24:39; John 19:34).

Jesus Christ, in His glorified flesh and bone body, now sits beside the Father in Heaven (Luke 24:39; John 20:27; Mark 16:19; Luke 22:69), for the Father, who is and did remain a Spirit being, is Spirit and has a Spirit body, and must be worshiped in Spirit and truth (John 4:24).

[Guest]

No, I think it is a statement that indicates the length of time that Jesus has been in existance. In other words it is a statement about His eternal nature

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 1:8