Family Out of Order

[Emily~Anne]

It is easy to misunderstand the context of a passage if you do not look at surrounding verses. You need the whole picture in order to get the context.

Very true E.A. This is why it is truly difficult to talk about several Scriptures at once, because proper exegesis means we need to first understand each verse in it's proper relationship before we can hope to properly compare it to other verses and their contextual relationship.

You misunderstood me, I saying if you look at only one verse at a time, you are much more likely to not be able to understand it in context.

[firehill]

It is easy to misunderstand the context of a passage if you do not look at surrounding verses. You need the whole picture in order to get the context.

Very true E.A. This is why it is truly difficult to talk about several Scriptures at once, because proper exegesis means we need to first understand each verse in it's proper relationship before we can hope to properly compare it to other verses and their contextual relationship.

Yes!

[firehill]

It is easy to misunderstand the context of a passage if you do not look at surrounding verses. You need the whole picture in order to get the context.

Very true E.A. This is why it is truly difficult to talk about several Scriptures at once, because proper exegesis means we need to first understand each verse in it's proper relationship before we can hope to properly compare it to other verses and their contextual relationship.

You misunderstood me, I saying if you look at only one verse at a time, you are much more likely to not be able to understand it in context.

No. We can look at all the verses AT THE SAME TIME but ONLY after we've seen what they all look like in their proper context. Then we'd have a complete picture.

[OopsMartin]

It is easy to misunderstand the context of a passage if you do not look at surrounding verses. You need the whole picture in order to get the context.

Very true E.A. This is why it is truly difficult to talk about several Scriptures at once, because proper exegesis means we need to first understand each verse in it's proper relationship before we can hope to properly compare it to other verses and their contextual relationship.

You misunderstood me, I saying if you look at only one verse at a time, you are much more likely to not be able to understand it in context.

E.A. one HAS to read a verse in it's relationship to the surrounding words, paragraphs chapters. That is what reading in context means. I'm sorry I should have clarified that.

Paul didn't write in verses that could be mixed and matched. Verse numbers were added when the first Bibles were printed hundreds of years later. Paul wrote in sentences, paragraphs (although there was no punctuation like English). Just like we don't take one sentence out of a paragraph in a book and match it up with another sentence in another chapter, we don't do that to the Bible either. First we read the whole section. Sometimes that may mean a couple chapters. We do this to get the gist of how those words relate to the rest. Only when we understand a section in it's contextual home, can we then pick it up and compare it to what Paul might be saying in some other epistle.

Does that make more sense.

[Openly Curious]

Ok lets take this a little farther. I would surmise that not only are the roles of the family messed up but God gives us marriage as an example of the relationship for Jesus and his church. I would also surmise that some of our churches have the relationship messed up as well. What is Gods plan for headship of His church. His example of a marriage is also his plan for his church. When we mess up one we are likely to mess up the other.

God Bless,

K.D.

Yes, families are messed up. Sin is the primary culprit.

Marriage was not given as an example of Christ and the church, that is misreading Scripture. Marriage is given for companionship. Reread Genesis. Husbands don't need to play God toward their wives and wives don't need to inordinately idolize their husbands. Such is not good for either one. If you will reread Ephesians 5 you will hopefully see that vs. 30-32 was reflecting on Christs great love for the church, portraying it to have the intimacy and unity similar to what should be in a godly marriage.

Church order is not similar to a marriage. Any self respecting man is going to walk out of a church that says the pastor is like a husband to his congretation. And a marriage relationship should not be like a church with husband as pastor (or priest) and wife along with the children his congregation. The two relationships, church and marriage, are not similar or comparable. Only Christ is our husband and that has nothing to do with church organization.

Now you can throw tomatoes if you like. I'm thinking of making a hearty stew today anyway. Pitch to the left so you don't hit the cat.

Marriage is symbolic of the relationship between Christ and the Church. It is not misreading scripture to say so either. The intimacy I have with my husband and I am not talking about a sexual relationship with him here either but one on one communion and fellowship with him that is so close and intimate as I can share with him just about everything and I know it is alright to be that close to him in our relationship as I trust him. We as children of God can also have that same intimacy and fellowship with our Lord as we pray and walk and talk with God in holy union with Him. Marriage is a picture portrayal of Christ and the Church unless one wants to remain blind to it and in that case one misses out on a whole lot.

I think it is ridiculous of you to compare the husband of a marriage relationship to the pastor or the priest of the church for the pastor of a church is not the "HEAD" of the church for that is "Jesus Christ" alone in which the whole family submits unto in the house of worship. God has his leaders in place but they do not ever take the headship of the church away from Christ.

The church is Christ body and His body is a "living organism" and as such it has to be governed with church organization the same way with the family it is a living body that also has to be structured and run less you have chaos in the home and in the church.

So I strongly disagree with your opinions on these matters.

OC

Oops you came against Kansas Dad that he made a comparison between the relationship of a husband and wife and a pastor and his congregation clearly that was not the case. Kansas Dad compared the relationship between a husband and wife to Christ and the Church. I agree with the comparison that Kansas Dad made which was "Not" what you said as you made a wrong comparison plain and simple.

OC

[OopsMartin]

Oops you came against Kansas Dad that he made a comparison between the relationship of a husband and wife and a pastor and his congregation clearly that was not the case. Kansas Dad compared the relationship between a husband and wife to Christ and the Church. I agree with the comparison that Kansas Dad made which was "Not" what you said as you made a wrong comparison plain and simple.

OC

Here is his post and my answer. I highlighted what I took to be comparing marriage to the organization of church.

ZKansasdad @ Jul 17 2007, 09:16 AM) Ok lets take this a little farther. I would surmise that not only are the roles of the family messed up but God gives us marriage as an example of the relationship for Jesus and his church. I would also surmise that some of our churches have the relationship messed up as well. What is Gods plan for headship of His church. His example of a marriage is also his plan for his church. When we mess up one we are likely to mess up the other.

God Bless,

K.D.

Yes, families are messed up. Sin is the primary culprit.

Marriage was not given as an example of Christ and the church, that is misreading Scripture. Marriage is given for companionship. Reread Genesis. Husbands don't need to play God toward their wives and wives don't need to inordinately idolize their husbands. Such is not good for either one. If you will reread Ephesians 5 you will hopefully see that vs. 30-32 was reflecting on Christs great love for the church, portraying it to have the intimacy and unity similar to what should be in a godly marriage.

Church order is not similar to a marriage. Any self respecting man is going to walk out of a church that says the pastor is like a husband to his congretation. And a marriage relationship should not be like a church with husband as pastor (or priest) and wife along with the children his congregation. The two relationships, church and marriage, are not similar or comparable. Only Christ is our husband and that has nothing to do with church organization.

So you should be able to tell by my answer that is how I took his words. If I mistook what he said, my apologies. At any rate, this should settle this misunderstanding all around. So the next time I say I didn't initiate something but was responding to someone else, can you give me the benefit of the doubt. I'm likely not making it up.

[OopsMartin]

It is also less effective to take a red neck approach to these things.

Ah, now I know how I have been categorised in your mind! Do you not think that "red neck approach" is a derogatory term? Tell you what, if I were to offer a similar stereotypical term in the UK, I'd be facing a law case.

Ruth

Offensive to me, my husband is a "red neck", as is his whole family. Red necks and stump jumpers the lot of them.

As a person from the South, I can tell you that "red-neck" is a term that is degrading despite what Jeff Foxworthy says.

When using "red neck," care must be taken. It is kind of like using the term "nigger." Extreme double standards exist. If you are inside either group, using the respective term "red neck," or the term "nigger" can be perfectly acceptable. If either term comes from outside the respective group, it is an extreme insult. That is why I choose to incorporate neither term into my vocabulary. I usually do not agree with him, but Al Sharpton just had some interesting commentary on this.

Really didn't know that. Thanks for explaining. Wouldn't have ever dreamt someone would use it like nigger as you say. It's lightheartedly used for when someone is being roughneck and such around here. Never heard of stump jumper. Any idea what that is? I'm out here in the boondocks around the ocean. Different sort of life from either city or forest land.

[Openly Curious]

Oops you came against Kansas Dad that he made a comparison between the relationship of a husband and wife and a pastor and his congregation clearly that was not the case. Kansas Dad compared the relationship between a husband and wife to Christ and the Church. I agree with the comparison that Kansas Dad made which was "Not" what you said as you made a wrong comparison plain and simple.

OC

Here is his post and my answer. I highlighted what I took to be comparing marriage to the organization of church.

ZKansasdad @ Jul 17 2007, 09:16 AM) Ok lets take this a little farther. I would surmise that not only are the roles of the family messed up but God gives us marriage as an example of the relationship for Jesus and his church. I would also surmise that some of our churches have the relationship messed up as well. What is Gods plan for headship of His church. His example of a marriage is also his plan for his church. When we mess up one we are likely to mess up the other.

God Bless,

K.D.

Yes, families are messed up. Sin is the primary culprit.

Marriage was not given as an example of Christ and the church, that is misreading Scripture. Marriage is given for companionship. Reread Genesis. Husbands don't need to play God toward their wives and wives don't need to inordinately idolize their husbands. Such is not good for either one. If you will reread Ephesians 5 you will hopefully see that vs. 30-32 was reflecting on Christs great love for the church, portraying it to have the intimacy and unity similar to what should be in a godly marriage.

Church order is not similar to a marriage. Any self respecting man is going to walk out of a church that says the pastor is like a husband to his congretation. And a marriage relationship should not be like a church with husband as pastor (or priest) and wife along with the children his congregation. The two relationships, church and marriage, are not similar or comparable. Only Christ is our husband and that has nothing to do with church organization.

So you should be able to tell by my answer that is how I took his words. If I mistook what he said, my apologies. At any rate, this should settle this misunderstanding all around.

Thanks oops for clarifying this for us

OC

[exrockstar]

well here is a general question.

does everyone atleast agree that a man and woman play different roles in a family?

does everyone agree that they are expected to do certain things as a male and female in a family?

just want to step out of this "rule over" concept for a second.

[firehill]

well here is a general question.

does everyone atleast agree that a man and woman play different roles in a family?

does everyone agree that they are expected to do certain things as a male and female in a family?

just want to step out of this "rule over" concept for a second.

My answer would depend on what you mean exactly. Besides I don't see family members as having anything to do with 'role play'. There is no law in the bible that says who does what. It's up to the partners. Male and female are more similar than they are different therefore 'roles' can interchange.