Women pastors

[Smalcald]

Of course those passages speaking of women being quite in church are not the passages which give specific instructions on who should be ordained; they are speaking of church order.

In addition I agree that we need order, that according to these scriptures men should do the readings and sermon's, this is not a hard thing to follow and many traditional congregations follow these teachings consistently. But the scripture on orderly worship, and I do agree that Paul was mainly addressing women yelling across to their husbands about what was being said, is still separate from the passages on the question of who should be deacons, elders and bishops.

But women are equal in the church that has NOTHING to do with roles within the church. Who is higher a father or a mother? You see equality does not mean being the same or having the same roles. Once again the passage in Galatians says nothing about the roles of Deacons or Bishops. Why do we need to go casting about for these versus when we have a questioned asked and answered in scripture? This is not nearly as hard as we are making it out to be, I don't get it?

I also will point out this has nothing to do with female abilities or with females right to choose the life they want in the secular world but simple adherence to scripture. The point itself, by itself I don't think is a huge deal, given other much much larger issues we deal with. The problem is that in the past this issue has never stopped at this issue, it has often indicated a basic view of scripture which leads to numerous other problems, a view that scripture needs to be seen as needing updating as society changes.

Our Holy Scriptures do not always rest well with our modern ears.

[firehill]

Of course those passages speaking of women being quite in church are not the passages which give specific instructions on who should be ordained; they are speaking of church order.

You are correct that they do not speak to who should be ordained.

In addition I agree that we need order, that according to these scriptures men should do the readings and sermon's, this is not a hard thing to follow and many traditional congregations follow these teachings consistently.

According to these scriptures? Which ones? 1 Tim 3? we've not gotten there yet....

But the scripture on orderly worship, and I do agree that Paul was mainly addressing women yelling across to their husbands about what was being said, is still separate from the passages on the question of who should be deacons, elders and bishops.

I agree that 1 Co 14 is seperate from the passages that address deacons, elders, and bishops.

But women are equal in the church that has NOTHING to do with roles within the church.

Oh but it does in more ways than one.

Who is higher a father or a mother? You see equality does not mean being the same or having the same roles. Once again the passage in Galatians says nothing about the roles of Deacons or Bishops. Why do we need to go casting about for these versus when we have a questioned asked and answered in scripture? This is not nearly as hard as we are making it out to be, I don't get it?

Which question is asked and answered in scripture?

I also will point out this has nothing to do with female abilities or with females right to choose the life they want in the secular world but simple adherence to scripture.

Adherence to scripture and interpretation of are two differeent things.

The point itself, by itself I don't think is a huge deal, given other much much larger issues we deal with. The problem is that in the past this issue has never stopped at this issue, it has often indicated a basic view of scripture which leads to numerous other problems, a view that scripture needs to be seen as needing updating as society changes.

Scripture doesn't need to be updated. What it says on the matter of pastors has been there all along.

[Ovedya]

Did not Adam name all the animals which would include the serpent?

Anyone else see the relevence of this?

No.

Where does the Bible state that Adam named the serpent?

He must have. That was Adam's responsibility in the Garden, to name the animals. We don't know how long he was doing that before the fall. He must have given the "serpent" name to the serpent.

So.....We know that the serpent is actually the devil. Therfore we must conclude that, when God lined up all the animals before Adam the devil was among them...to receive his name.

[firehill]

Did not Adam name all the animals which would include the serpent?

Anyone else see the relevence of this?

No.

Where does the Bible state that Adam named the serpent?

He must have. That was Adam's responsibility in the Garden, to name the animals. We don't know how long he was doing that before the fall. He must have given the "serpent" name to the serpent.

So.....We know that the serpent is actually the devil. Therfore we must conclude that, when God lined up all the animals before Adam the devil was among them...to receive his name.

You make a good point but all we can go off of is what scripture says. Notice the word 'MADE' below:

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had MADE. He said to the woman...

Do you have other scriptures that can be added to this about the 'serpent'?

[OopsMartin]

just wondering..... out of curiosity only,

how many people are listening to the women on this message board????

some people have been saying through the times that this is their church for they can not (for one reason or other) go to another place of fellowship.....

how many women are saying that women should not teach or preach above men?????

i know there have been several on this board, yet they place themselves above men in their arguments/debates as knowing more or having more authority.....

interesting....... isnt it......

i am just wondering, where everyone is leading to or coming from.....

mike

I noticed that and said something couple days ago. The thing that I find interesting is that the women who believe that women shouldn't teach men are the primary voices telling men off for thinking differently. Kinda gives me a chuckle.

[Vickilynn]

just wondering..... out of curiosity only,

how many people are listening to the women on this message board????

some people have been saying through the times that this is their church for they can not (for one reason or other) go to another place of fellowship.....

how many women are saying that women should not teach or preach above men?????

i know there have been several on this board, yet they place themselves above men in their arguments/debates as knowing more or having more authority.....

interesting....... isnt it......

i am just wondering, where everyone is leading to or coming from.....

mike

Shalom Mike,

#1. This is not a church in the Biblical sense.

#2. Men and women are not teaching, but giving their opinions based on Scripture.

#3. Women are not ordained or in spiritual authority over men here.

Women who post are not placing themselves "above" men here by posting, since this is not a church and there is no church order or authority here. All posters, men, women, Jew, Gentile are equal.

BTW, the authority here (George and the Moderators) are BOTH men and women - equal. That is because this is not a church. We, the posters are ALL under their authority, both men and women, because this is a private board.

BTW, I am an equal opportunity opinion-giver. I tell it like it is to both men AND women!

[firehill]

just wondering..... out of curiosity only,

how many people are listening to the women on this message board????

some people have been saying through the times that this is their church for they can not (for one reason or other) go to another place of fellowship.....

how many women are saying that women should not teach or preach above men?????

i know there have been several on this board, yet they place themselves above men in their arguments/debates as knowing more or having more authority.....

interesting....... isnt it......

i am just wondering, where everyone is leading to or coming from.....

mike

Shalom Mike,

#1. This is not a church in the Biblical sense.

#2. Men and women are not teaching, but giving their opinions based on Scripture.

#3. Women are not ordained or in spiritual authority over men here.

Women who post are not placing themselves "above" men here by posting, since this is not a church and there is no church order or authority here. All posters, men, women, Jew, Gentile are equal.

BTW, the authority here (George and the Moderators) are BOTH men and women - equal. That is because this is not a church. We, the posters are ALL under their authority, both men and women, because this is a private board.

BTW, I am an equal opportunity opinion-giver. I tell it like it is to both men AND women!

Vickilynn, can you prove from the scriptures along with their context anywhere in the bible that women are prohibited from teaching and 'having authority' over men in a church setting. I only ask because what all you said above hinges on you providing the evidence of what I just asked you to provide.

[eric]

Well by now we all should know the position of both male and female when it comes to preaching or teaching the bible. However I will say this from my own point of view.

I would sooner listen to a woman, with a good working knowledge of both OT and NT and give a good account of scripture, than listen to the watered down version from the likes of the so-called experts like Scheuller, Warren, Mclaren and Bell, to name a few.

There are lots of ladies, that have been on this board as long as I have, and some not so long, who I would sooner hear from, than some of the fly-by-night know-it-all argumentative males who post on here. As far as women being allowed to speak in church, I suppose it depends on what some folk consider church. I have no qualms with a pastor who allows his wife to share his ministry from time to time. After all I was lead to the Lord by my wife and daughters who prayed their knees off for me and was baptised my one of my daughters.....so whats the big deal.

[OopsMartin]

Shalom Mike,

#1. This is not a church in the Biblical sense.

#2. Men and women are not teaching, but giving their opinions based on Scripture.

#3. Women are not ordained or in spiritual authority over men here.

Women who post are not placing themselves "above" men here by posting, since this is not a church and there is no church order or authority here. All posters, men, women, Jew, Gentile are equal.

BTW, the authority here (George and the Moderators) are BOTH men and women - equal. That is because this is not a church. We, the posters are ALL under their authority, both men and women, because this is a private board.

BTW, I am an equal opportunity opinion-giver. I tell it like it is to both men AND women!

see now I agree with everything you say here, but you shouldn't.

By interpreting 1 Tim. to mean that all women may not teach or exercise authority over men, you must adhere to the limitations stated in that Scripture. And there are no explanations that limit it to a church. Further, when you admonish a man telling him he is wrong, then you are doing a lot more than just giving your opinion.

So it sounds to me that you are not following your own belief system.

[OopsMartin]

Well by now we all should know the position of both male and female when it comes to preaching or teaching the bible. However I will say this from my own point of view.

I would sooner listen to a woman, with a good working knowledge of both OT and NT and give a good account of scripture, than listen to the watered down version from the likes of the so-called experts like Scheuller, Warren, Mclaren and Bell, to name a few.

There are lots of ladies, that have been on this board as long as I have, and some not so long, who I would sooner hear from, than some of the fly-by-night know-it-all argumentative males who post on here. As far as women being allowed to speak in church, I suppose it depends on what some folk consider church. I have no qualms with a pastor who allows his wife to share his ministry from time to time. After all I was lead to the Lord by my wife and daughters who prayed their knees off for me and was baptised my one of my daughters.....so whats the big deal.

Man, I so agree with you. It astounds me that some of those have concocted a system whereby they make tons of money but put out so little in sound teaching.

That is a blessing to hear that your wife and daughters brought you to the feet of the Messiah.