Women pastors

[Vickilynn]

Shalom Mike,

#1. This is not a church in the Biblical sense.

#2. Men and women are not teaching, but giving their opinions based on Scripture.

#3. Women are not ordained or in spiritual authority over men here.

Women who post are not placing themselves "above" men here by posting, since this is not a church and there is no church order or authority here. All posters, men, women, Jew, Gentile are equal.

BTW, the authority here (George and the Moderators) are BOTH men and women - equal. That is because this is not a church. We, the posters are ALL under their authority, both men and women, because this is a private board.

BTW, I am an equal opportunity opinion-giver. I tell it like it is to both men AND women!

see now I agree with everything you say here, but you shouldn't.

By interpreting 1 Tim. to mean that all women may not teach or exercise authority over men, you must adhere to the limitations stated in that Scripture. And there are no explanations that limit it to a church. Further, when you admonish a man telling him he is wrong, then you are doing a lot more than just giving your opinion.

So it sounds to me that you are not following your own belief system.

Ooops:

Well, since you have been wrong about what I believe every time, you aren't really the person to tell me what I should or should not do or what I am following. You have got it wrong again. And you're wrong about giving opinions.

Further, when you admonish a man telling him he is wrong, then you are doing a lot more than just giving your opinion.

And if you believe THAT, you are not following your own belief system.

Firehill: : I have nothing to prove since I put forth no doctrine in my response, I was simply responding to Mike's concerns.

[Ovedya]

Did not Adam name all the animals which would include the serpent?

Anyone else see the relevence of this?

No.

Where does the Bible state that Adam named the serpent?

He must have. That was Adam's responsibility in the Garden, to name the animals. We don't know how long he was doing that before the fall. He must have given the "serpent" name to the serpent.

So.....We know that the serpent is actually the devil. Therfore we must conclude that, when God lined up all the animals before Adam the devil was among them...to receive his name.

You make a good point but all we can go off of is what scripture says. Notice the word 'MADE' below:

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had MADE. He said to the woman...

Do you have other scriptures that can be added to this about the 'serpent'?

Why should we assume or add anything which iss not there? What are you looking for?

Speak where the Bible speaks and remain silent where it is silent.

[Ovedya]

just wondering..... out of curiosity only,

how many people are listening to the women on this message board????

some people have been saying through the times that this is their church for they can not (for one reason or other) go to another place of fellowship.....

how many women are saying that women should not teach or preach above men?????

i know there have been several on this board, yet they place themselves above men in their arguments/debates as knowing more or having more authority.....

interesting....... isnt it......

i am just wondering, where everyone is leading to or coming from.....

mike

Shalom Mike,

#1. This is not a church in the Biblical sense.

#2. Men and women are not teaching, but giving their opinions based on Scripture.

#3. Women are not ordained or in spiritual authority over men here.

Women who post are not placing themselves "above" men here by posting, since this is not a church and there is no church order or authority here. All posters, men, women, Jew, Gentile are equal.

BTW, the authority here (George and the Moderators) are BOTH men and women - equal. That is because this is not a church. We, the posters are ALL under their authority, both men and women, because this is a private board.

BTW, I am an equal opportunity opinion-giver. I tell it like it is to both men AND women!

Vickilynn, can you prove from the scriptures along with their context anywhere in the bible that women are prohibited from teaching and 'having authority' over men in a church setting. I only ask because what all you said above hinges on you providing the evidence of what I just asked you to provide.

How about the two verses that have already been given here "umpteen" times?!

[OopsMartin]

Shalom Mike,

#1. This is not a church in the Biblical sense.

#2. Men and women are not teaching, but giving their opinions based on Scripture.

#3. Women are not ordained or in spiritual authority over men here.

Women who post are not placing themselves "above" men here by posting, since this is not a church and there is no church order or authority here. All posters, men, women, Jew, Gentile are equal.

BTW, the authority here (George and the Moderators) are BOTH men and women - equal. That is because this is not a church. We, the posters are ALL under their authority, both men and women, because this is a private board.

BTW, I am an equal opportunity opinion-giver. I tell it like it is to both men AND women!

see now I agree with everything you say here, but you shouldn't.

By interpreting 1 Tim. to mean that all women may not teach or exercise authority over men, you must adhere to the limitations stated in that Scripture. And there are no explanations that limit it to a church. Further, when you admonish a man telling him he is wrong, then you are doing a lot more than just giving your opinion.

So it sounds to me that you are not following your own belief system.

Ooops:

Well, since you have been wrong about what I believe every time, you aren't really the person to tell me what I should or should not do or what I am following. You have got it wrong again. And you're wrong about giving opinions.

Further, when you admonish a man telling him he is wrong, then you are doing a lot more than just giving your opinion.

And if you believe THAT, you are not following your own belief system.

Firehill: : I have nothing to prove since I put forth no doctrine in my response, I was simply responding to Mike's concerns.

OK, answer me this. If you were in church, in a Bible Study led by a man, would you think it acceptable to talk to the leader and correct him as you do on these forums. How about the other men in the Bible study would you talk to them in disagreement the way you do on these forums. How about the other women, would it be reasonable to correct other women in the manner you do here or would you leave that to the men in the group.

[Ovedya]

These forums do not compare with a genuine meeting of a local church.

[patricia1]

[fon

t=Arial]

As a woman I have preached under the authority of my pastor and his wife. We already knew before hand who would have something derogitory to say and asked those who consider this to be a subject they do not agree with to stay home. It was asked corporately not individually.

I preached on the masculinity and feminity of our Father. My Pastor laughed saying..You are really going to stir up those religious spirits. He did no stay. I can see smiling faces...perplexed faces and downright angry faces. I was later accused of blasphme and twisting the word. amongst other things. What I did not know was my pastor taped every word of the teaching.

I was ordained to minister by assembly of god yet I do not hold their bylines to heart. they make it harder for woman than men most likely due to the fact that is what is out there.

The Holy Spirit does not...I repeat does not reside in us and then say because shes a woman, or because he is a man I can do this through him or her. Then when I did a study I found that only in the King James Version Does God call Adam and Eve both Adam. He only distiguished them by their jobs. Adam named Eve Eve. God did not..., which I found very interesting.

If we took the woman out of the word of god...The woman off the missionary fields and so on due to others not liking us unto moving by the power of the Holy Spirit .., Who is held for grieving the Holy Spirt one of a disatrous sin?

Those who do not like woman preachin or tyeaching and your in a position to need healing and the Holy Spirit lead you to a woman would you go? Naaman had to dip himself in a swamp 7 times. pride comes before a fall

[OopsMartin]

These forums do not compare with a genuine meeting of a local church.

I agree Ovedya. That isn't my point. My point is that if one sticks precisely to the interpretation of 1 tim.2:12 that it means women cannot teach, preach, or exercise authority over men, then one has to also stick to the lack of parameters. It doesn't say ONLY in church. It just says not to.

Just keep in mind that I don't believe that is the correct interpretation. So I really do not have a problem with a woman giving her opinions, correcting men, teaching men, etc. Disrespect I have some problems with. But I have to remember that myself.

[OopsMartin]

VickiLynn,

Just for clarity.....

It's not about you VickiLynn. It's about your grasp of theology.

You're a gutsy outspoken woman. I like women like that.

I just thought it would illustrate my question to make it real. But I can find another way to do that.

Shalom

[Guest BrotherJohn2]

Let me ask you all a question. Who spoke for God during the Old Testament? The prophets. And what did the prophets of the Old Testament period talk about. The latest fads or trends? Happy happy fun talk? No, they WARNED of impending DOOM because Israel had strayed from paths God gave them and followed after idols. Do you think that the Church is any different? Do you think that God will not send a tare-filled, disobedient, ecumenical WH*RE into GREAT TRIBULATION? If you don't, then you don't know the same God that I know.

Book of Numbers

21:5

And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.

If the bread of God's Word is not enough for you, but you will have itching ears and desire some new truth, God has something for you, FIERY SERPENTS! My friends, after you have rejected the CLEAR teaching of God you will be given over to devils to destroy your conscience and mind. For we battle against strongholds, demonic principalities which seek to enslave the believer's mind with lies from the pit. Lies about God. Lies about the Bible. Seducing spirits which seek to infiltrate the Church and take it over and make it into the coming WH*RE of Babylon, the false church. Claiming to be of God, but really a filthy wh*re holding a cup of the abominations of her fornication.

The gentile Church is going the way of Israel. She is proud, thinking that she is taking over the world. But in truth she is naked and poor. She is nigh on to being rejected by God:

Book of Matthew

13:31

Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

13:32

Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

She has filled the whole world but has done so by becoming the habitation of devils, the cage of every foul and hateful bird. How do these foul, unclean and hateful birds get in the tree? One of the foremost ways is by DISREGARDING the clear teaching of the Word of God that women are to be in SILENCE in the churches, it is a SHAME for them to speak:

14:34

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

Book of 1 Corinthians

14:35

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

14:36

What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

14:37

If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Oh men of seared conscience, I beseech you. WHY WILL YOU DISOBEY THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD?

One of the latest posts on this thread is from a "teacher" from the Assemblies of God. She is proudly boasting how without fear she went before her Church teaching about God's supposed feminine aspects. DO YOU NOT FEAR AND QUAKE AT THE THOUGHT OF GOD? A CONSUMING FIRE! This "assembly" which produced the likes of Kathryn Kuhlman:

*edit, No Youtube links*

Stop the video 17 seconds in. Have you no discerning of spirits? YOU CAN SEE THE DEVILS IN HER EYES!! She is wholly given over to satan. POSSESSED BY DEVILS. Why, because she DISOBEYED THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD and attempted to usurp authority over men by teaching in the Church.

18:2

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Oh friends don't you see? God has never changed. He is the same God as in the Old Testament. Those who despised his law died without mercy. Do you think he will not hold accountable those who twist and distort his Word.

What was Eve's sin? SHE BELIEVED A LIE ABOUT GOD!!! Don't you see? That was why she was in the transgression. That is why women cannot preach or teach. BECAUSE OF THE ANGELS. It is not some cultural taboo which comes from the first century. It is true from Genesis. That's why Paul refers to Genesis to validate his argument. Disobeying God in this area is to BREAK A TYPE OF CHRIST! Man is the head of the woman as Christ is the head of the Church. Shall the Church teach Christ? God forbid. Moses broke a type of Christ by striking the rock instead of speaking to it and for this was barred from entering the promised land. What will God do to those who break God's type by having the Church over Christ? The woman over man? He will give their minds over to DEVILS:

11:3

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

11:4

Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

11:5

But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

11:6

For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

11:7

For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

11:8

For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

11:9

Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

11:10

For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

God clearly warns us here of the importance of this typology. The reason is clearly given as being because of the angels. It has nothing whatsoever to with culture. Only a seared conscience would try to justify disobeying the clear teaching of God's Word by appealing to culture. The Word of God is not constrained by culture. Those cultures which reject God's standards will be tossed onto the ash heap of history. God never changes. He is the same today as he was when he gave the commands to Paul as to what order should be observed in the Church. God never changed, WE DID!

[eric]

I would at this stage revert back to Paul's letter to Tmothy, where in my mind, at least, Paul was instructing a young man, what to look for when setting up a ministry,

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

I might be wrong, but Paul was telling Timothy what he, Paul, would put up with, such as the first eight words of the sentence suggests. Just because Paul wouldn't allow it, does not mean that it was not permissable for any other apostle.

Just as an aside, I think some people misunderstand the meaning of authority. Of any church I have attended, I have never considered any preacher, male or female has any authority over me, as far as my spiritual or physical actions or thoughts are concerned. Christ is the only One who has authority over me. I may be dislodged from a congregation, or George may be able to ban me from posting on Worthy, but that is where the authority stops.....I think. at the same time I would not join a church that has an ordained female priest or vicar or pastor in charge of a congregation., but as I have mentioned I don't mind a woman who has been invited by the church leaders, addressing the meeting.

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