Women pastors

[methinkshe]

What do people think about husband and wife teams?

I made myself I think clear about my views on the ordination of women; however I also do not have a problem with a husband and wife working together in the ministry as long as the male fulfills his biblical role. I have seen this done very effectively in some congregations and have seen it done with big problems in others.

So long as the wife ministers within her boundaries then husband and wife ministries are great! However, when wives begin to teach the congregation (and thereby their husbands) then I think that breaches the roles God has ordained for men and women and results in general confusion in the long term.

The following is my own personal understanding, but as a general principle, it has helped me to understand a lot, and you are at liberty to accept or reject.

Men initiate, women reciprocate and multiply.

Now this fits in with the laws of procreation and the spiritual rules vis a vis Christ and the church.

Moreover, I have always felt more comfortable, as a woman, being the reciprocator and multiplier, than the initiator. Look at most husband/wife relationships, and more often that not you will find that a woman only needs to be shown love to be able to reciprocate it and multiply it tenfold to her husband and then a thousandfold to her children. But a woman who is denied love, does not seem to have that same capacity to initiate love and thence reciprocate and multiply love. Men, on the other hand, are not reliant on being loved so as to fulfil their personalities. They are not bound by the rules of reciprocation and multiplication in the same way as women - at least, not in the physical. But in a spiritual sense, all believers are female in terms of Christ and His bride, the chucrh. We know that "we love God because He first loved us" and I think that is true of the male/female relationship. Just my personal observations and you are free to discard them without fear of causing me any offence.

Ruth

[Vickilynn]

What do people think about husband and wife teams?

I made myself I think clear about my views on the ordination of women; however I also do not have a problem with a husband and wife working together in the ministry as long as the male fulfills his biblical role. I have seen this done very effectively in some congregations and have seen it done with big problems in others.

Shalom,

In the terms of husband and wife pastors? Nope.

If the wife is ordained and functions as a pastor, I believe it violates Scripture.

I have heard women pastors state that they are "covered" because they minister with their husbands, or with his permission. However, the husband cannot give permission to violate Scripture.

If the wife is ordained and functions as a pastor (thereby teaching and having authority over men in her congregation) I believe it violates Scripture.

The pastor's wife is a wonderful role for a woman and has many areas of ministry to women. She should no seek to teach or be a pastor to men.

[firehill]

You argument is essentially because God was silent regarding the issue, no issue exists. That is the classic argument from silence

So you admit that God was silent on the 'issue'? Then you build on top of that your doctrinal beliefs? Who's really arguing from silence here?

[OopsMartin]

Men initiate, women reciprocate and multiply.

Now this fits in with the laws of procreation and the spiritual rules vis a vis Christ and the church.

There are a few things wrong with this teaching.

1. It's a foundational Buddhist teaching.

2. Not in Scripture

3. Poor metaphor

[OopsMartin]

a woman was used to bring an entire town to Christ,

was Christ wrong for using a woman to tell (preach, teach ) others about Him?

mike

John 4:37 For in this the saying is true:

[OopsMartin]

However, the NT gift of prophecy was very different that the OT understanding of who a prophet was

Agreed. It was somewhat different. But not that different. Prophets were still looked upon as scholars of the sacred scrolls as well as anointed teachers forthtelling revealing the truths already written, including foretelling. They did not however change into spiritualized psychics. That is a modern understanding.

I'll look at the other responses when I have time.

It was actually very different. In the OT to not listen to a prophet was punishable by death. IN the NT we are encouraged to evaluate the message of the prophets for accuracy. Don't know what you mean by "spiritualized physics"

Yes, it is indeed different. But where do you get that to not listen was punishable by death. The prophets were often mocked and laughed off, consider Jeremiah. Perhaps you are confusing the primary Judges. When The Judge of the nation made a ruling then it had to be followed or the person would be put to death. Unless you've a Scripture I'm not aware of. Or unless you mean that God will judge the person/people who do not listen to the Prophet. I do believe that God will still deal according to wisdom with those who harm His anointed.

However, the ministry of Prophet in the N.T. was still second in responsibility to the Apostle. Although I consider the five fold ministries one of combined efforts rather than an hierarchy, because one ministry does not control or direct the other. Yet, there is a definite scope of ministry that differs and certain ministries work after foundations are laid by another.

It is unfortunate that today being the last days we are honoring the anointings of the Holy Spirit less and less. Apostles are few; instead we have Missionaries. Prophets are few and those who are do not wish to be recognized as such because of the prevalent stigma against the prophet in most of todays churches. At least evangelists are still honored to some degree. As for pastors/shepards, so many in that position claim titles and a scope of ministry that shouldn't be theirs and for which they are not anointed for. Too many pastors today are merely charismatic organizers. They should be running a corporation and not a church. And true anointed teachers today don't have the respect of the church that they should; while people with a personal skill for teaching in general are replacing the teacher anointed by the Holy Spirit to teach Scriptural truths are "too theological".

[exrockstar]

3. Poor metaphor

[OopsMartin]

3. GOD DOES NOT VIOLATE HIS OWN RULES

[OopsMartin]

Hello there brothers ans sisters. Number one I would like to say that there is a curse for anyone who adds to the words of God and to one who takes away from the words of God.. its in Revelations.

2nd The word URSURP i think needs to be defined here. I won't get into the greek. It means to seize by FORCE, without LEGAL AUTHORITY! To possess wrongfully. I have yet known a woman to do that personally and I most certainly have never overpowered a mans authority. Just because we are christians does not mean we are perfect and do not have human frailities.

Has anyone here been in the audience of katherine kuhlman. The recorded reflection of light in her eyes should not be considered demonic even today it is hard to get the red out of the eyes of pictures. Satan cannot cast out satan. Demons fleed in her presence. If you were not there hold back on your judgement please.

3. the christian church and the bride are two different things. The church is falling apart due to the fact it is complacent...lost its first love and seeking what can be given and not the giver. The bride Is making herself ready. Remeber one is left, two christians are walking together there. Remember the story of the 10 virgins. half were ready. So I consider it dismal to have a chuch full of believers and the possibility of 50% not making it. Then You have God saying it will be hard to find a man of faith in the last days.

4. If God can speak through a donkey , He can speak through anyone He pleases. He said even the rocks and stones would cry out. The earth cries for redemtion

5. Jesus came through Mary due to the Fact that Josephs line was cursed, (his sperm through jeconiah)

6. God told adam not to eat of the tree...adam was standing right there while eve plucked the fruit took a bite and HANDED it to Adam, although eve was made aware adam did nothing to stop her.

7esther saved the hebrew race, rahab did a mighty work as well. Jesus may have picked out both men and woman if men thought woman as a little more than chattle.. FOR APOSTLES THAT IS

it says that your children will dream dreamsect. not your boys. and the word man is used to mean both look it up wHEN tHE lORD gOD lOOKED DOEWN AND REGRETED hE MADE MAN....DID THAT EXCLUDE EVE?

I missed this post or I would have responded earlier. You make more than 7 good points.

The word translated 'usurp' in from authentein in the Greek. It's only used once in the NT. You are correct that it does not mean simple "exercise authority", which would be exousia which is used extensively. I've read a lot of research on authentein and agree with your assessment. Here's a quote from D. Scholer I got off the internet.....

Author: David Scholer

Title of Book: Women, Abuse and the Bible, pg. 49-50

Wilshire goes on in his 1993 article to speak clearly about the meaning of authentein-its specific meaning in 1 Timothy 2:12, and its implications for the headship debate and the place of women in the church. He concludes for the term authentein and its cognates that "the preponderant number of citations

[OopsMartin]

However, the NT gift of prophecy was very different that the OT understanding of who a prophet was

Agreed. It was somewhat different. But not that different. Prophets were still looked upon as scholars of the sacred scrolls as well as anointed teachers forthtelling revealing the truths already written, including foretelling. They did not however change into spiritualized psychics. That is a modern understanding.

I'll look at the other responses when I have time.

How many times does ruach appear in the testament? Was the difference due to the day of pentecoste does one think? Yet The Holy Spirit Did fall upon both men and women prior... Even Hannah talked as thouh she was drunk and I believ e sara. Sorry if I am wrong about sara. Well anyway does not ruach and pnuema mostly coincide. I wonder How many today would be stoned. Most actually see way ahead of time these days. But in the old times they relied on prophets for victory of war and leaderships. We wouldn't stone them today but lock them up and place them on antidepressants( Jeremiah ) And those who saw visions would be on anti psychotics, and of course those who heard God. ( voices) Paul would never be accepted due to his killing of christians....Peter had such a uncotrolled temper, Timothy was scared of his shadow, Luke would be frowned upon by the faith teachers and so on. No, none is worthy.. it is who will answer His call. Many are called...Few are chosen. few are chosen....why!!!!!! all a mans ways seem right in his own eye, But God weighs the heart....my favorite scripture love in christ patrish

Yes, the same Holy Spirit fell on the Hebrew people. Hannah is an interesting thought. The way things are worded differently in the O.T. it could be very well that she was exercising a gift of the H.S.

You are right on that the primary prophets of O.T. were relied on for leadership. God even used Deborah to lead into battle. Do we really think God didn't know that Barak wouldn't go into battle without her?

Today there is incredible disrespect for God's special anointings on individuals. I think ultimately the church leaders are often usurping the authority of the Holy Spirit to lead and guide. We have replaced God's order by institutional order. Sometimes it's a fine balance. Too often the Holy Spirit simply isn't allowed in todays churches.