Who is Israel?

[Guest shiloh357]

Are you suggesting there is no such thing as a

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Shalom Nebula,

Ahhhh yes! Maketh much more sense now! And I agree! G-d's plan has ALWAYS and still is, for the Jew to come to know His Messiah, Yeshua, the seed of Abraham.

No Gods plan from the beginning was is to save all men, not just the Jews as you say. It not all about the Jews, its about God sending his only begottn Son to die for the World not just Jews. You got to see the big picture.

[Guest shiloh357]

Shalom Nebula,

Ahhhh yes! Maketh much more sense now! And I agree! G-d's plan has ALWAYS and still is, for the Jew to come to know His Messiah, Yeshua, the seed of Abraham.

No Gods plan from the beginning was is to save all men, not just the Jews as you say. It not all about the Jews, its about God sending his only begottn Son to die for the World not just Jews. You got to see the big picture.

Where in Vickilynn's statement did she say it was God's plan just to save the Jews? You really have to work pretty hard to twist her words like that. She did not saying thing that was exclusionary.

[Fraught]

those who are arguing the dispensational cause should realize that it came into vogue less than 200 years ago. Therefore you are arguing that for 1800 years the Church was WRONG when it held that the Church is Israel?

For those who worry about God will forsaking his promises to Israel, certainly not and he didn't. Isn't it true that Jesus Christ IS Israel (he was born a Jew) - the promises of the Kingdom will be kept to Him. Remember in Isaiah 59 how God could find no one to intercede, no one to whom thru the promise could come? Then He used his own Right Arm? It's true the church is not spiritual Israel; as the body of Christ, it is literal Israel. We are joint heirs with Christ of The Promise to the patriarchs. (ref: Rom 8:17, Gal 3:29, Eph 3:6, Titus 3:7, Heb 11:9)

17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

6to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

7so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

9By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise;

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Shalom Nebula,

Ahhhh yes! Maketh much more sense now! And I agree! G-d's plan has ALWAYS and still is, for the Jew to come to know His Messiah, Yeshua, the seed of Abraham.

No Gods plan from the beginning was is to save all men, not just the Jews as you say. It not all about the Jews, its about God sending his only begotten Son to die for the World not just Jews. You got to see the big picture.

Where in Vickilynn's statement did she say it was God's plan just to save the Jews? You really have to work pretty hard to twist her words like that. She did not saying thing that was exclusionary.

I was just clarifying her statement because the way it reads sounds like Gods plan is the save jews...period. Well, what about the rest of the world? I know she does not believe that or at least I hope she does not believe that way.

Do you have a problem with my clarification or are you just out on a war path.

[nebula]

Shalom Nebula,

Ahhhh yes! Maketh much more sense now! And I agree! G-d's plan has ALWAYS and still is, for the Jew to come to know His Messiah, Yeshua, the seed of Abraham.

No Gods plan from the beginning was is to save all men, not just the Jews as you say. It not all about the Jews, its about God sending his only begottn Son to die for the World not just Jews. You got to see the big picture.

Jedi -

Would you please keep Vickilynn's response in context of my original statement.

I was speaking of the Jews and what it means for them to have faith in their Messiah Yeshua.

The bigger plan is a different subject all together from what I was focusing in on, OK?

[Retrobyter]

Shiloh357, now how can you argue with that scripture.....

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Jedi -

Would you please keep Vickilynn's response in context of my original statement.

I was speaking of the Jews and what it means for them to have faith in their Messiah Yeshua.

The bigger plan is a different subject all together from what I was focusing in on, OK?

nebula,

Ok...but I am a just a litte confused about what original statement. I am not trying to be rude about what she said, I was just clarifing it. God bless you Vickilynn

[Guest shiloh357]

I was just clarifying her statement because the way it reads sounds like Gods plan is the save jews...period. Well, what about the rest of the world? I know she does not believe that or at least I hope she does not believe that way.

Do you have a problem with my clarification or are you just out on a war path.

It was not worded at all like a "clarification" particularly when you told her to look at the big picture. That did not come off as "clarification." It came off as you assuming she meant that it was all about the Jews and you were to straighten her out. Furthermore, if anyone was to clarify her words it would be her not you. That is part of your problem. You read into what other people are saying and assume things that are not there. So Yeah, I have a real problem with your attempt "clarify" her words. It is both arrogant and presumptuous.

[Guest shiloh357]

those who are arguing the dispensational cause should realize that it came into vogue less than 200 years ago. Therefore you are arguing that for 1800 years the Church was WRONG when it held that the Church is Israel?

For one thing, the correctness of a doctrine is not based upon who believes it or how old it is. That is not the standard by how we measure truth. I can imagine the same arguments being thrown at the reformer, Martin Luther. Was Martin Luther somehow wrong by challening 14 centuries of what comprised Christian Orthodoxy of his day? To his credit, Luther successfully demonstrated that Orthodoxy doesn't always get it right.

So yes, I have the temerity to declare that for 1,800 years the Church has been wrong to declare itself to be Israel. It has no biblical foundation. The belief that the Church is Israel is a major heresy in Christendom and has been used by Satan to ensure that the Jews are kept as far as possible from the gospel.

For those who worry about God will forsaking his promises to Israel, certainly not and he didn't. Isn't it true that Jesus Christ IS Israel (he was born a Jew)

Wrong. The Bible does not teach that Jesus is Israel. Jesus was and is still a Jew. That however does not make Jesus "Israel."

- the promises of the Kingdom will be kept to Him

No, promises of the Kingdom will be kept to the Jewish people by Jesus.

. Remember in Isaiah 59 how God could find no one to intercede, no one to whom thru the promise could come? Then He used his own Right Arm? It's true the church is not spiritual Israel; as the body of Christ, it is literal Israel.

The "body of Christ" is a metaphor used by Paul to teach about the relationship of believers to one another and their relationship to Christ both corporately and individually. Again, Jesus is not "Israel" so it does not follow that the "body of Christ" is Israel. That is nothing but a theologogical trainwreck.

We are joint heirs with Christ of The Promise to the patriarchs. (ref: Rom 8:17, Gal 3:29, Eph 3:6, Titus 3:7, Heb 11:9)

17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

6to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

7so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

9By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise;

Part of the problem with the above is your sloppy hermeneutics. Being a seed of Abraham does not make one an Israelite. You are trying to force similarity on dissimilar concepts. I am sorry, but you are grossly decieved.