Disfavor for Bush Hits Rare Heights

[nebula]

What part of Bush wanted this job and his policy failures are his failures do you guys not get?

What part of God's heart do you not get?

This is what bugs me most about all I've heard from Liberals on this Board. It's hard to find any of them talking about anything but politics and very little about seeking God's heart. If there are policies on which I should stand with Liberals, I am afraid to because it is so hard to find a Liberal who "seeks first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness."

Goodness, if I ever post slanderous remarks about a Democrat, and you rebuked me for "speaking evil against the leaders of my people", I'd take your word to heart.

Even Paul repented for speaking evil against the high priest, even though the high priest deserved it.

[forrestkc]

What part of Bush wanted this job and his policy failures are his failures do you guys not get?

What part of God's heart do you not get?

This is what bugs me most about all I've heard from Liberals on this Board. It's hard to find any of them talking about anything but politics and very little about seeking God's heart. If there are policies on which I should stand with Liberals, I am afraid to because it is so hard to find a Liberal who "seeks first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness."

Goodness, if I ever post slanderous remarks about a Democrat, and you rebuked me for "speaking evil against the leaders of my people", I'd take your word to heart.

Even Paul repented for speaking evil against the high priest, even though the high priest deserved it.

If we cannot express our opinions about the job the people we elect are doing, then what is the point of a democracy?

[nebula]

If we cannot express our opinions about the job the people we elect are doing, then what is the point of a democracy?

Forrest, let me share with you some points taken from the Scriptures a group of Christians put together that they titled "The Christian's Bill of Rights" (the link to the entire bill may be found in my siggy).

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As believers in the Lord Jesus Christ we have only one right: and that is to give up all rights to ourselves (2 Cor. 5:14-16; Romans 14:7-9).

We have the right to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him (Mt. 16:24-26).

We have the right to be "subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, to malign no one, to be uncontentious, gentle, showing every consideration for all men" (Titus 3:1-2).

We have the right to not be political agitators trading the truth of His Word to play politics with men's souls; thinking that true spiritual change occurs through legislation rather than the transforming power of the gospel of grace. (1 Peter 4:10-16).

We have the right to pursue holiness-not personal happiness (1 Peter 1:13-16).

We have the right to march daily on our knees in prayer; praying for our leaders in government; our church leaders; our fellow believers; our families; and the lost (1 Timothy 2:1-3; Ephesians 6:18-21).

We have the right to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations (Matt. 28:18-20).

We have the right to have no rights apart from Christ Himself; "for whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake shall find it" (Matt. 16:25: John 15:5).

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Do you believe these words?

[forrestkc]

If we cannot express our opinions about the job the people we elect are doing, then what is the point of a democracy?

Forrest, let me share with you some points taken from the Scriptures a group of Christians put together that they titled "The Christian's Bill of Rights" (the link to the entire bill may be found in my siggy).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As believers in the Lord Jesus Christ we have only one right: and that is to give up all rights to ourselves (2 Cor. 5:14-16; Romans 14:7-9).

We have the right to deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him (Mt. 16:24-26).

We have the right to be "subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, to malign no one, to be uncontentious, gentle, showing every consideration for all men" (Titus 3:1-2).

We have the right to not be political agitators trading the truth of His Word to play politics with men's souls; thinking that true spiritual change occurs through legislation rather than the transforming power of the gospel of grace. (1 Peter 4:10-16).

We have the right to pursue holiness-not personal happiness (1 Peter 1:13-16).

We have the right to march daily on our knees in prayer; praying for our leaders in government; our church leaders; our fellow believers; our families; and the lost (1 Timothy 2:1-3; Ephesians 6:18-21).

We have the right to go into all the world and make disciples of all nations (Matt. 28:18-20).

We have the right to have no rights apart from Christ Himself; "for whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake shall find it" (Matt. 16:25: John 15:5).

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Do you believe these words?

Yes, but I also believe that we have to take some parts of the bible as pertaining to the state of society then. For example, there are numerous versus on slaves being obedient to their masters even if their masters are unjust. However, I think today we can all agree that the concept of slavery is abhorrent to any decent and just society, and no man has to submit to slavery.

So why would we not also recognize that in a democracy, where we choose our leaders, and where they work for us, that we can be critical of their policies and decisions?

[nebula]

Yes, but I also believe that we have to take some parts of the bible as pertaining to the state of society then. For example, there are numerous versus on slaves being obedient to their masters even if their masters are unjust. However, I think today we can all agree that the concept of slavery is abhorrent to any decent and just society, and no man has to submit to slavery.

But can not this principle apply to employees towards their employer?

How often do we as Christians grumble against our employers, bend the rules, think nothing of "using company time" for personal activities? But what if we took this passage to heart more, that we need to act in obedience towards our employers, to work in humility?

So why would we not also recognize that in a democracy, where we choose our leaders, and where they work for us, that we can be critical of their policies and decisions?

First let me ask you, are you more concerned about your rights or about God's righteousness?

[forrestkc]

But can not this principle apply to employees towards their employer?

How often do we as Christians grumble against our employers, bend the rules, think nothing of "using company time" for personal activities? But what if we took this passage to heart more, that we need to act in obedience towards our employers, to work in humility?

The versus on slavery specifically applied to slavery. Certainly one should work for their pay and serve their company to the best of their abilities, but in such a situation, it is mutually beneficial to do so. In those versus applied to slavery, the issue was more of one to preserve the societal order at the time.

First let me ask you, are you more concerned about your rights or about God's righteousness?

You are creating a false dichotomy. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[Treasure]

QUOTESo why would we not also recognize that in a democracy, where we choose our leaders, and where they work for us, that we can be critical of their policies and decisions?

First let me ask you, are you more concerned about your rights or about God's righteousness?

But Nebula's question is the real bottom line. It's not about us or even Bush (or Lincoln or anyone else). We pray for God's guidance and trust Him.

Yes, Bush did seek the presidency and yes, he has made mistakes but I don't remember him asking for the obstacles that he's been dealt with. And actually, I probably wouldn't vote for him again if he could run. IMO he's lost his political influence and humanly speaking, he's tired. I can't imagine being under that kind of scrutiny and fire and maintaining my sanity.

I really don't care what others say about him. I know that my assignment, as designated by God, is to pray for my leaders and those in authority and that's what I choose to do.

It is frightening though that we really don't have a good candidate running for the upcoming election.

[MorningGlory]

If we cannot express our opinions about the job the people we elect are doing, then what is the point of a democracy?

When the time comes when we, the people, can't criticize decisions made by those who work for us in government....that's when we'll know that all is lost. All of those on this board that can't stand any questioning of Mr. Bush's policies are blindly following a party; same for those who want a liberal government. Think for yourselves and keep elected officials' feet to the fire. It's the only way to keep them in line.

[Scarletprayers]

It is frightening though that we really don't have a good candidate running for the upcoming election.

If by "we" you mean one party in particular, well, that's your problem. But if by "we" you mean "we the people" regardless of partisan kack, that's a lack of informedness on your part. I can think of at least one excellent candidate, possibly two, maybe more (which I'd know if *I* was better informed).

Get out of the partisan box and live a little!

oh please, she has just as much a right to her opinion as you do.

[nebula]

The versus on slavery specifically applied to slavery. Certainly one should work for their pay and serve their company to the best of their abilities, but in such a situation, it is mutually beneficial to do so. In those versus applied to slavery, the issue was more of one to preserve the societal order at the time.

So, which Scriptures do you rely on for instruction on how an American employee should regard and act towards his employer?

First let me ask you, are you more concerned about your rights or about God's righteousness?

You are creating a false dichotomy. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Really?

In our country, we have the right to sue. But, in the Scriptures, there is a clear command that a believer should not take another believer to court. So, if a brother or sister in Christ legally wrongs you, you "right" is to take the believer to court; but by "God"s righteousness" you should not.

Which do you follow?