Hello...I am deist

[Joshua-777]

What I mean about the quotes is that I can find just as many that show that our forefathers didn't approve of religion as you can find that they did. Giving short quotes is always taking the speaker's words out of context, whether it be you or me who does it.

Separation of church and state means just that: State business protected from religious influence. Religious issues protected from state issues. It should go BOTH ways, just as the founders intended.

In fact, long ago christians actually wanted to take prayer out of school in the first place because they didn't want someone with a different faith praying with their children and influencing them contrary to what they were learning at home and in church. (And I'm fine with that. I actually agree.)

Now that others want prayers and the mention of god out of school, the christians seem to want it back in and claim that the reason our school systems are such a mess is because prayer was taken out. (This I don't understand.)

(BTW,I think catholics might take offense to you separating them from the rest of the christians.)

lol With prayers taken out of schools, In california, there is a class on islamic culture where Students where required to know, and practice muslim prayers, there was a big issue about it by parents, Christian, and non believers alike. Seems like the stopping prayer in schools is a little biased to be against Christianity. I feel that if a child wants to pray in school, as long as he's not inforcing others to pray, but open to others willing to pray with him, it shouldn't be a problem. Sad it turned into some getting suspended for bring a bible to school, which has happened in 3 different occasions that I know of. Public schools are a mess, and I'm not blaming it totaly on taking prayer out of school. I blame it on culture it's self. The only thing thats evolving is the nature of sin.

And about catholics, I have met some I would have to say they know the Lord, but I have met many catholics who will take mans word over what is written in the bible, also I don;t believe in many traditions, and things they believe in. Catholic, and Christian I still believe are majorly diffferent

[Joshua-777]

The idea of seperation of church and state means you will not put asunder our right to express ourselves in prayer. Its like hot coals to see a man praying in public for those that do not have faith . This is the root of why its used by atheist as a tool to end freedom of expression.

I agree

[Guest Robert R]

Hello everyone,

I joined because I want to hear some Christian feedback on Thomas Paine and The Age of Reason. It seems that I cannot start a new thread anywhere besides here.

I have been doing some research on Paine, and I am beginning to realize that he is America's unsung patriot. I am quite ashamed that I do not know more about him. It's not only a reflection of my ignorance, but a reflection of America: Paine does not get the recognition he deserves. I recently borrowed his "Collected Writings" from the public library and within two pages of "The Age of Reason" I can see how ignited some Christians into a fervor.

His contributions were priceless. He advocated for the poor, women

[Gettin' In Tune]

Hello everyone,

I joined because I want to hear some Christian feedback on Thomas Paine and The Age of Reason. It seems that I cannot start a new thread anywhere besides here.

I have been doing some research on Paine, and I am beginning to realize that he is America's unsung patriot. I am quite ashamed that I do not know more about him. It's not only a reflection of my ignorance, but a reflection of America: Paine does not get the recognition he deserves. I recently borrowed his "Collected Writings" from the public library and within two pages of "The Age of Reason" I can see how ignited some Christians into a fervor.

His contributions were priceless. He advocated for the poor, women

[followerofjesus]

It doesn't matter much to a true christian what these men did. We don't follow man but what is the Lords will. If its the Lords will then thats the way its gonna be.

[Wonderboy]

I'm not American, but what I have read on the internet (how reliable is that?) about some of the founders of America, is that some belonged to Freemasonry which apparently does not have the greatest reputation and dabbles in the occult.

Now honestly I have no idea how true this is for one and secondly I have no idea how many founders were involved in Freemasonry. But judging from what I have read, if any of the men on your list, Gettin' In Tune, were involved with Freemasonry odds are they weren't true Christians. Thus yes they'd be punished.....yes.....in hell.

Thats the way I see it, but I'm open to correction because I don't live in the US.

[Secularist]

I'm not American, but what I have read on the internet (how reliable is that?) about some of the founders of America, is that some belonged to Freemasonry which apparently does not have the greatest reputation and dabbles in the occult.

Now honestly I have no idea how true this is for one and secondly I have no idea how many founders were involved in Freemasonry. But judging from what I have read, if any of the men on your list, Gettin' In Tune, were involved with Freemasonry odds are they weren't true Christians. Thus yes they'd be punished.....yes.....in hell.

Thats the way I see it, but I'm open to correction because I don't live in the US.

This is a nice thread on deism, but I do not understand your position Wonderboy. Why are you against progression, empirics, and scientific knowledge?

Why do you condemn good people to hell? I thought that was up to your God and not you. You prove me wrong, by stating any Christians has the moral and absolute say on who goes to Hell and who goes to Heaven. Why are you playing God?

Edited September 15, 2007 by Secularist

[Wonderboy]

No, Secularist, I'm not against progression nor scientific knowledge at all. These are a great importance to man, but it depends what man does with such knowledge. Will he use it for good or evil? But this would be another thread on its own. Where did you see that in my post?

I'm not condemning anyone to hell, I haven't the right nor authority to do so. My statement comes from my belief in the authority of the Word of my Lord God Almighty and is in reference to the statement that some of the American Founding Fathers believed in Jesus Christ but not his deity. As a Christian, not believing in Jesus' deity would render His Word useless, and as worthy and flawed as the next man's. If this would be the case then how could one believe in His promise of salvation through His death and resurrection?

Some were more outspoken, like Ethan Allen, Franklin, and Jefferson, while others were more subdued, like Washington and Adams. Jefferson believed Jesus, but not his divinity. He wrote the