Message shocks church youth

[tsth]

I can point to the first five years in my Christian walk, and I am pretty sure I accepted Christ when I was 8, but I wasn't growing very much. Why? I was in church so I was learning, but it wasn't what it shoudl be. I wasn't in prayer, I wasn't reading God's Word, and I had sin in my life... I'm not going into detail, but I was being what the bible calls a double minded man, who is "unstable in all his ways".

Dear kitty,

I would ask this.........are you sure you were saved at age 8? How much can a small child understand of the condition of sin? I too believed that because at the age of 12 I prayed a prayer, I was saved, (because an adult told me I was?) Yet, it was not until I had reached the age of adulthood and walked in darkness thru most of my adult life, that I came to a point of TRULY understanding brokenness and repentance. There was no way I could have truly repented at age 12, as I did not even fully understand a life of sin (how can you at 12/8?) It was not until I had become utterly filthy, that I could accept the truth of my condition and call out to God to be saved, and then to understand how vital HIS WORD was to me and HIS much needed help. My point is this, the culture is prostelytising young children, as if they are of an age of accountability and able to understand the full "sin condition" when in fact there is NO way that they could, as they have not walked long enough in the ways of the world yet. How many children were baptised in the Scriptures? How many stories of repentant children were there? Not any. I would venture to guess that most of today's adults WERE TOLD that they were saved, when in fact they have grown into adults who have not followed the Lord in any way nor do they spend time with Him in His Word, to even begin to know His thoughts, so HOW can they be saved? Yet, they will hang on to a prayer they prayed at age 6 or 7, to be the evidence of their salvation? Rather than a life committed to Christ? I believe Paul's message is crucial to the opening of eyes of today's kids, lest they walk in the same manner as I, to believe something just because an adult confirmed it, rather than because you live it.

I know this is a whole other topic though, but just wanted to address your question, as I understood it completely. I too walked in darkness, believing I was in light. I had been misinformed about "sin" and "repentance", as I was not old enough to comprehend my condition well enough.

1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[kittylover0991]

I can point to the first five years in my Christian walk, and I am pretty sure I accepted Christ when I was 8, but I wasn't growing very much. Why? I was in church so I was learning, but it wasn't what it shoudl be. I wasn't in prayer, I wasn't reading God's Word, and I had sin in my life... I'm not going into detail, but I was being what the bible calls a double minded man, who is "unstable in all his ways".

Dear kitty,

I would ask this.........are you sure you were saved at age 8? How much can a small child understand of the condition of sin? I too believed that because at the age of 12 I prayed a prayer, I was saved, (because an adult told me I was?) Yet, it was not until I had reached the age of adulthood and walked in darkness thru most of my adult life, that I came to a point of TRULY understanding brokenness and repentance. There was no way I could have truly repented at age 12, as I did not even fully understand a life of sin (how can you at 12/8?) It was not until I had become utterly filthy, that I could accept the truth of my condition and call out to God to be saved, and then to understand how vital HIS WORD was to me and HIS much needed help. My point is this, the culture is prostelytising young children, as if they are of an age of accountability and able to understand the full "sin condition" when in fact there is NO way that they could, as they have not walked long enough in the ways of the world yet. How many children were baptised in the Scriptures? How many stories of repentant children were there? Not any. I would venture to guess that most of today's adults WERE TOLD that they were saved, when in fact they have grown into adults who have not followed the Lord in any way nor do they spend time with Him in His Word, to even begin to know His thoughts, so HOW can they be saved? Yet, they will hang on to a prayer they prayed at age 6 or 7, to be the evidence of their salvation? Rather than a life committed to Christ? I believe Paul's message is crucial to the opening of eyes of today's kids, lest they walk in the same manner as I, to believe something just because an adult confirmed it, rather than because you live it.

I know this is a whole other topic though, but just wanted to address your question, as I understood it completely. I too walked in darkness, believing I was in light. I had been misinformed about "sin" and "repentance", as I was not old enough to comprehend my condition well enough.

1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Then with this let me say, that I am not completely 100% sure that I accepted Christ when I was eight, though I can think of two times specifically where I went forward for salvation.. the first time being the first time I was at church, and then the second in junior church and I know I can say I understood what sin was at least that second time. However, when I was about 13, I doubted if I was serious and if I actually understood enough when I was eight to have actually accepted Christ. My old youth pastor said that I "had fruit", and that only confused me more after going for what they call "assurance of salvation". Well, looking back, I also have an idea that maybe I DID understand. Why? Becuase I went home that night and said, "Hey mom, do you know if you're going to heaven?". She told me "Yeah, I think I'm good enough" and I remember my heart sinking becuase I knew she wasn't saved. Alright, so in actuality, I shook my head, but I did'nt know how to tell her otherwise at that point. I knew that no matter of good works coudl get you to heaven, we aren't good enough.. .and while I didn't know the specifics, I knew that we could only get to heaven through Christ alone. I think an eight year old can understand Now a 4, 5, or 6 year old? I really wouldn't go there too much, and I'd be *extremely* weary.... but I can tell you that after talking with some ittle girls this week at VBS about salvation, that 3rd and 4th graders, at least the ones I was with, some of them were able to spit back what the bible said. I said "some" becuae some did'nt understand at the end and we just prayed that they woudl accept Christ, but those children that *did* understand, most of them were not ONLY able to spit it back out, but they were able to give examples that I would NEVER have thought of, things in their OWN lives that woudl help them to understand. We have to be "punished" for our sins, kind of like when a little child does something wrong and they have to "get a whooping" Or even from there, some of them brought up Christmas gifts, and one brought up Easter... just things that only the Holy Spiirit could have brought to mind...

Not to mention various distractions, but that is another story all to itself. I really do question a lot of the times when it comes to children if they really understood and really accepted Christ, but that is probably why my pastor has preached on a few times about not forcing a child through a prayer...

Didn't even Christ talk about child-like faith? Does that mean that only adults can have child-like faith? They might not understand every aspect of the Christian life, or even the *full* extent of sin, but they can understand that they do right and wrong, and that as Mommy and Daddy have to give them a "whoppin'" if they do wrong... They can understand that Jesus died (that he was perfect) and that he rose again... They can understand that they need Christ to get to heaven, but they can only understand if the Holy Spirit leads, it's nothing that we can do. My heart broke when a little girl at the end said, "I choose when I die whether I go to heaven or hell" because she didn't understand that without Christ, we can't go to heaven, and she didn't understand the sin in her own life, or even the extent of that punishment to the point of know that she needs Christ. Another girl, when we asked her why Jesus died (after about five-ten minutes of going through it) said, "I don't know".... I guess some just can't/won't/dont' understand at that age, while others do.

However, back to what you were saying.... Does he believe you can loose your salvation?

1Jo 1:5

[tsth]

Dear kitty,

Here is my concern with regard to children, (along with what I already posted above):

What damage is done, when an adult tells a child to not doubt their salvation, and then as we have testified, we did not understand and became adults walking in full-blown rebellion to God and His Ways, and proceeded further to comfort ourselves in our sin by saying, "well, we should NEVER doubt our salvation, when the whole time, we are wondering about our standing with God, because WE KNOW we are doing wrong! Yet, the church silences us by the stating of "never doubt your salvation"? The Word of God tells us to "examine ourselves to see if indeed we are in Christ Jesus, unless of course we fail the test". Which I was failing miserably, in my young adult years, but chose rather to believe those who told me "not to worry", when in fact, I should have been trembling. I now cherish the moment that I heard the Words of God, with regard to my sins, (specifics)! And realized that I had been deceived, I was also deceiving myself, when in fact, I had not been following Jesus at all, but only the God of my own imagination, rather than the Jesus revealed within His Own Word.

It is the Holy Spirit Who convicts us, (causes us to doubt and woos us to come to Him). The devil will accuse us of things past that we no longer practice and we regret deeply. The Holy Spirit convicts us of things present.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Also, I would ask, do we understand the term "backslider", or is it a term we have twisted in meaning?

I only find the term 1 time in KJV? It does not sound like a saved person to me? I also refer to these references which today's church might label as a backslider, but sound lost to me:

Proverbs 14:14 The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways: and a good man shall be satisfied from himself.

Strongs

#5472

backslider:

gwo a primitive root

Transliterated Word TDNT Entry

Cuwg TWOT - 1469

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech

soog Verb

Definition

to move, go, turn back, move away, backslide

(Qal) to backslide, prove recreant to

(Niphal)

to turn oneself away, turn back

to be turned or driven back, be repulsed

Is this a backslider?

Zephaniah 1:6 And them that are turned back from the LORD; and those that have not sought the LORD, nor enquired for him.

Isaiah 50:5 The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.

2 Peter 2:15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

I don't believe a backslider is in good standing with the Lord.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Axxman]

I think it was shocking because he told them...most of them anyway...that they were not Christians. I saw this video ages ago and I still remember the "jaw dropping" statement:

"What are you clapping for...I'm talking about you!"

As Paul Washer correctly points out...the vast majority of American "christians" are living as though God NEVER gave them a law. He is not saying you can lose your salvation. He's saying if you have the salvation of Christ pulsing through your veins...YOU WILL ACT LIKE IT.

Too many people who claim to be christians don't act like it, most of the time.

[nebula]

How much can a small child understand of the condition of sin?

I have to disagree with you, Suzanne.

I was quite young when I chose to follow Jesus. I have full recollection of knowing what sin was and my need for a Savior. It may have been a simplified version, but I do believe I understood it. At least, I don't recall ever having a sense of gaining better knowledge of it as I grew up. I also know that I made the effort to live a life as pleasing unto the Lord. I failed a lot, but I did what I could.

No, we shouldn't tell children to say the prayer and they are saved. However, I do not believe that children are incapable of understanding the concept of sin and redemption.

[tsth]

I guess I am speaking for those of us who had to wade completely out into it, before we fully understood the depth and magnitude of our condition. For me, and others I know, we were a total mess before we knew our state, and called out for help. Many times it takes a complete state of bondage to bring about true repentance, brokenness and contrition....and children just don't get that far out into THAT depth and condition of filthiness....(especially with regard to particular sins, if that makes sense)

In His Love,

Suzanne