Who will Jesus save?

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SpiritedDefence Either you believe in the Bible the Word Of God or you don't. The Word is not a smorgasbord that you can pick some scriptures from and pass over others that cause you discomfort. The Bible stands and the scriptures are clear. People will be cast into the eternal lake of fire and the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever so be it. No amount of philosophy or human thinking of what is just and what is right will change the will of God.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[nebula]

Rather than deleting my links, why not try answering questions posed by them?

Hey, Spirited!

I can appreciate your wanting to make a point, but you really do need to respect the rules of this Board, and there are rules about thread links. You can find the rules in the "Terms of Service" link listed above.

8.  Users may post URL's inside of Worthy boards, however if your URL that is posted leads to a page that is of anti-Christian content, or of such content that is offending or disturbing to other board users, the user posting such an address will be banned from Worthy Boards.

S'OK?

Now, concerning your Hell questions, I am not sure what you are getting at with this. I will admit that a lot of our concepts of Hell are rooted in tradition. And I agree that would make for an interesting discussion.

Unfortunately, in reading the questions, I do not see the nature of Hell actually being the point of the questions.

I need to ask you - what do you believe is the heart of God? Seriously!

What do you believe "salvation" is?

The premise of your questions indicate a belief that life is about us:

unless they did something here on earth to prevent it,

if good people go to heaven and bad people go to Hell,

The purpose of the Law was to show that we cannot save ourselves. In fact, if the fate of our afterlife is dependent upon our good deeds, then none of us would have a very good afterlife! For we have all sinned, and the wages of sin is death (that's written in Romans).

Now, in reading the New Testament, Jesus told about a rich man and a begger named Lazerus. When Lazerus died, he went to what was called "Abraham's Bosom" while the rich man went to a place of torment. But they were only separated by chasm, which none could cross. Some scholars have theorized that before Christ, those that died went to what could be considered the same place, just that there was a separation between the righteous and the unrighteous (and the concept of "righteousness" is not the same as "being a good person" or "being a bad person"). This I do not know.

But what I do know, Jesus promised to those who loved and followed Him that He would prepare a place for them in His "Father's mansion."

I don't follow Jesus for "fire insurance." I follow Jesus for Jesus, just for the love of Him. I don't seek "Paradise," I don't seek "escape from torment." I seek to be with Jesus. That's all that really and truly matters.

As for Salvation - Jesus completed the work of salvation with His death and resurrection. It is available to all! However, if we ignore His salvation, if we don't withdraw the investment, so to speak, it is of no effect in our lives, and we die in our sin. The shower is available to make us clean, but if we don't jump in we stay dirty! God has the adoption papers ready for us to sign saying we receive His adoption, but if we don't sign we aren't adopted as His heirs. If we show up to the wedding in our own garments instead of the ones He gave, we get thrown out of the wedding feast.

That's the point that really matters.

It's not about "Heaven or Hell;" it's about "Jesus or no Jesus."

[Guest LCPGUY]

Another answer of the quality that is to be expected 

Please at least answer the translation point with regard to the variety of translations of the word Sheol. After all, there is no answer for that in Scripture, it being a meta-scriptural question.

Spirited

Sheol???

Jesus described this Himself. Hades, the place of torment and Abraham's Bosom, the place of comforting - Paradise if you will. Luke: 16:19-31.

As we speak, hell is unoccupied. The Bible says its first two inhabitants will be the Anti-Christ and the False-Prophet. Satan is the next to go in followed by the demons and those that are judged at the great white throne judgment (those alive at the time but unsaved, and those called out of hades). Rev: chapter 20.

And yes, the KJV translators got it wrong. They should have said hades, not hell. The NKJV folks got it right.

Just my 2 cents...

John

[Guest LCPGUY]

Hell is a false doctrine, part of what divides the church, just as the Bible said it would become divided.

Spirited

You state that Hell is a false doctrine. :wow:

If Hell is a false doctrine, then Jesus was a liar, or, a lunatic, since He taught extensively on Hell.

Also, the Bible contains no false doctrine... No doctrine in fact that divides true believers. It is mankind's poor interpretations and self-motives (sin) that divides.

John

[Guest Calamity]

In reply to the original question of this thread: "Who Will Jesus Save?":

John.3

[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John.12

[46] I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Acts.10

[43] To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

1John.5

[1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

:bg:

[traveller]

Woohoo!! You got that right Calamity!!

[Guest charlie]

I think the Bible is the word of God, though I don't necessarily take it literally word for word, and I don't think it's "the whole story".

Seems the questions spirited defence asked has gotten everyone's goat up. Keeping calm I'd have to say Spirited Defence hasn't asked anything I haven't already "wondered" about before. Actually, I think there's more Biblical support for universal salvation than for OSAS OR a pre-trib rapture. If Jesus' blood has ALL covered, then that would truly be good news, wouldn't it.

I recently puchased a new encylopedia and the first thing I looked up was hell. Because I'm scared to death of it, to the point that I really don't love God, I just fear him. Anyway according to the encylopedia the eternal fire and brimstone hell seems to be a common theme among all 4 middle eastern religions. Other cultures have their ideas about hell but they differ from ours.

If Jesus' blood was a sacrafice for ALL mankind then WHY was it even necessary if our eternal abode is STILL dependent upon us? Perhaps an eternal hell is where Satan and demons will spend eternity. Perhaps human beings "who don't make the cut" (if there's a cut to be made) will burn up there (the second death). But even if the latter is true I don't see 100% support scripturally for eternal damnation, just a "second death" which would occur, followed by non-existance. If God expects us to forgive our enemies, would He really allow us to spend infinity in a burning torment for a short finite life on this earth. In the old testament God "supposedly" allowed the Hebrews to kill other societies because they were "burning their children in the fire", yet we are to believe that He would do the very same thing. I thought our God was not "a God of confusion" but some of the things we've been taught from the pulpit do nothing but confuse. Preachers become contortionists trying to explain away the unexplainable.

I'm not saying I know it all. I'm just trying to figure all this out because at this point in time I just don't "buy" the party line anymore.

btw - I remember reading somewhere that of all the Bible versions on the market the KJV has the most errors and is the most unreliable as far as sticking to the original manuscripts. Ironically that version mentions the word hell more than any of the others. Now, I don't know how to read greek, I wish I did so I don't know for a fact if that's true. But, I think the KJV english is too hard to understand anyway, and with all the thousands of corrections that have been made to it over the years, I tend to stay away from it. That's just my personal preference and the reasons why it's my preference. I only mention it here because of the "hell" aspect.

[nebula]

If Jesus' blood was a sacrafice for ALL mankind then WHY was it even necessary if our eternal abode is STILL dependent upon us?

Try this.

Read Matthew 25 with this question in mind, and see if you can find an answer.

[eric]

charlie

btw - I remember reading somewhere that of all the Bible versions on the market the KJV has the most errors and is the most unreliable as far as sticking to the original manuscripts.

You probably read that on one of the non-christian notce boards you have visited.

[Guest Calamity]

I think the Bible is the word of God, though I don't necessarily take it literally word for word, and I don't think it's "the whole story".

You are correct. The Bible is the Word of God. However, it is the whole story. From Genesis to Revelation, it is the entire story. We see time after time, the foretelling of the coming of Jesus in the Old Testamet, then about His birth, death, resurrection and ascension all through the New Testament, and the revelation of Him in the book of Revelation. It's complete.

2 Tim. 3

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

739 // artiov // artios // ar'-tee-os //

from 737 ; TDNT - 1:475,80; adj

AV - perfect 1; 1

1) fitted

2) complete, perfect

-----------------------

1822 // exartizw // exartizo // ex-ar-tid'-zo //

from 1537 and a derivative of 739 ; TDNT - 1:475,80; v

AV - accomplish + 1096 1, thoroughly furnish 1; 2

1) to complete, finish

1a) to furnish perfectly

1b) to finish, accomplish, (as it were, to render the days

complete)

Seems the questions spirited defence asked has gotten everyone's goat up. Keeping calm I'd have to say Spirited Defence hasn't asked anything I haven't already "wondered" about before. Actually, I think there's more Biblical support for universal salvation than for OSAS OR a pre-trib rapture. If Jesus' blood has ALL covered, then that would truly be good news, wouldn't it.

Asking questions is one thing, blatantly stating something unbiblical is another thing. The Bible plainly says that there will be those cast into hell - those who do not believe. There is nothing that the Blood of Jesus doesn't cover, except unbelief. Die in unbelief and that's it. No more chances.

Matt.25

[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

[46] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Rev.14

[11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

everlasting punishment"", and "for ever and ever" seem pretty real, and pretty eternal to me.

I recently puchased a new encylopedia and the first thing I looked up was hell. Because I'm scared to death of it, to the point that I really don't love God, I just fear him. Anyway according to the encylopedia the eternal fire and brimstone hell seems to be a common theme among all 4 middle eastern religions. Other cultures have their ideas about hell but they differ from ours.

There is no need to be scared to death of hell. A Christian has no reason to fear hell, because a Christian will not be going there, and should do all they can to spread the Gospel so that as many as possible will not go there after they die.

If Jesus' blood was a sacrafice for ALL mankind then WHY was it even necessary if our eternal abode is STILL dependent upon us? Perhaps an eternal hell is where Satan and demons will spend eternity. Perhaps human beings "who don't make the cut" (if there's a cut to be made) will burn up there (the second death). But even if the latter is true I don't see 100% support scripturally for eternal damnation, just a "second death" which would occur, followed by non-existance.

Jesus did die for all, but unfortunately, not all will believe, repent, and accept this precious gift. Accepting a free gift is not a work we have to do to earn it. A gift is not earned, it is freely given to those who take it. You cannot force someone to take a gift, it's a choice they make to accept it or deny it.

John

3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

The only "cut" to make, is to believe, repent, and accept God's free gift of salvation through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Those that do not do this, will see hell after they die, unfortunately.

Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. But, there will be unsaved people there also.

Matt.25

[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Yes, the last enemy to be destroyed is death:

I Cor. 15

[12] Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

[13] But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

[14] And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

[15] Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

[16] For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

[17] And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

[18] Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

[19] If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

[20] But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

[21] For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

[22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

[23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

[24] Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

[25] For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

[26] The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Notice, this was addressed to believer's. Believer's will be made alive (vs. 22-23). Death is conquered for those in Christ. Christ was the firstfruit, then, those who are his, at his coming (vs. 23). Those who are not believers will not be made alive in Christ, but will be in eternal torment. That is a type of death, or a figurative death, as far as I can tell, but the torment is eternal.

Rev.21

[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rev.14

[11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Luke 13

[27] But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

[28] There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

If Jesus' blood was a sacrafice for ALL mankind then WHY was it even necessary if our eternal abode is STILL dependent upon us?

Let me ask you this: If all are going to be saved, then why did God carry out His plan of salvation by sending his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to die a horrible death to pay the price for our sins? Why was that necessary? There's only one way to God, and that's through Jesus.

John.14

[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

You can't get there by going to hell for a season to burn up your sins, so you can have another chance to repent. You only get there through the blood of Christ. After you die, it's too late.

Heb.9

[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Just my 2 cents worth.