Domestic Abuse

[Marnie]

I agree we are witnessing both.

In a way though divorce is a separate topic from abuse. What I mean by that is that there are many many cases where scripturally and morally divorce should not take place but it does, and on the other hand we have these cases of abuse which are far too common, and yet are not the majority (thank God), of the reasons that Christians do not stay in a marriage. So people like me, who think that many Christians who do divorce should not, end up sounding like I am telling abused women or sometimes men to stay with an abuser, and I have no such intention.

This is why we should really talk about marriage and divorce as separate topics from abuse. In addition the majority of abuse today does not happen in marriage, it happens in co-habitation and other relationships, so abuse is not an issue that is defined by marriage alone. (It is also one of the reasons I am so against living together outside of marriage, beyond just the sin issue).

Correct. I think I may have hijacked this thing, and for that I apologize. They are indeed separate issues. Although recent stats are pretty discouraging. 25 years ago incidents of abuse within a marriage were 1 in 10 marriages. Today it is 1 in 4. I think as a whole, society has lost respect for all things sacred as situational ethics and moral equivalence have become the world view of choice of this generation. Sad.

[HAZARD]

I was wondering...just what ARE a persons Christian options when it comes to being married to a person that physically abuses them? Is divorce out of the question from a Biblical point of view?

There is not one scripture in the entire bible which commands a person to stay with an abuser of any kind.

[Marnie]

[OopsMartin]

I agree we are witnessing both.

In a way though divorce is a separate topic from abuse. What I mean by that is that there are many many cases where scripturally and morally divorce should not take place but it does, and on the other hand we have these cases of abuse which are far too common, and yet are not the majority (thank God), of the reasons that Christians do not stay in a marriage. So people like me, who think that many Christians who do divorce should not, end up sounding like I am telling abused women or sometimes men to stay with an abuser, and I have no such intention.

This is why we should really talk about marriage and divorce as separate topics from abuse. In addition the majority of abuse today does not happen in marriage, it happens in co-habitation and other relationships, so abuse is not an issue that is defined by marriage alone. (It is also one of the reasons I am so against living together outside of marriage, beyond just the sin issue).

Correct. I think I may have hijacked this thing, and for that I apologize. They are indeed separate issues. Although recent stats are pretty discouraging. 25 years ago incidents of abuse within a marriage were 1 in 10 marriages. Today it is 1 in 4. I think as a whole, society has lost respect for all things sacred as situational ethics and moral equivalence have become the world view of choice of this generation. Sad.

Actually, we really have little idea how bad the issue of marital abuse is. 25 years ago it was shameful to speak of it (and yet they were more open than the previous generation), even for the victims. Same thing for rapes, and child abuse. All these things were covered up. Now we are beginning to have an idea to how wide spread it is, only because victims are talking. Even so not all are talking. And not all are willing to openly accuse their abusers.

Abuse has always been around. And because of the shameful secrecy it's always been worse than we imagined. I believe it arises out of the concept of the powerful controling the weaker. We like to think that we are benevolent rulers, but really humans are just too sinful to manage unaccountable power. Look at what happens to our movie stars. How many can manage their wealth and the power it contains in holiness? Few. Those who do make great sacrifices and work hard to find integrity.

[Smalcald]

My point was simply that today most couples in the US co-habitat at some point, these relationships from what we can tell have a higher rate of domestic abuse than marriages do, which makes some sense. I am certainly not denying the issue of abuse within marriage. But today the term "wife beater" is really a misnomer as a good portion of these guys are not beating their wives because they don

[Marnie]

My point was simply that today most couples in the US co-habitat at some point, these relationships from what we can tell have a higher rate of domestic abuse than marriages do, which makes some sense. I am certainly not denying the issue of abuse within marriage. But today the term "wife beater" is really a misnomer as a good portion of these guys are not beating their wives because they don't' have wives they have women who they are living with or sleeping with, and unfortunately those women often have children from previous relationships who have to witness the madness.

Right again. Here's a question that might bring the thread back on track: To what do you attribute this rise is domestic violence? I use the term "domestic" because that's what the thread is about, but you are right about shacking up. I have my own ideas of why the violence has escalated, but what you guys think?

[Smalcald]

Good question.

The short answer is I don't really know.

But that has never stopped me from speculating. I don't know if it really has gone up, I think oops said earlier that we are much more aware of it today and see it as a crime. At one time I think beating your wife was scene a family issue, something that was bad of course, but not something that society should care about or even want to really know about.

But if the actual numbers are higher I think it might have to do with an acceptance of violence as a means of solving issues in our culture combined with what I would call our raunchy culture. You can't show boys images of porn like women submitting to the every needs and desires of men as a normal relationship and expect that not to have an impact. Also men feel much less need and pressure to be good husbands and fathers today. Possibly it has to do with the increase in family breakdown. Ironically many of the abusers were raised by only their mothers with an absent father, one would think they would respect women but that seems to be the inverse case. But you can't go from a society where the vast majority of children were raised in two parent homes with one married mother and father, to a society with a minority of kids being raised in that nuclear home and not see the fruits of that now.

But like I said those are just my speculations.

[Iryssa]

My point was simply that today most couples in the US co-habitat at some point, these relationships from what we can tell have a higher rate of domestic abuse than marriages do, which makes some sense. I am certainly not denying the issue of abuse within marriage. But today the term "wife beater" is really a misnomer as a good portion of these guys are not beating their wives because they don't' have wives they have women who they are living with or sleeping with, and unfortunately those women often have children from previous relationships who have to witness the madness.

Right again. Here's a question that might bring the thread back on track: To what do you attribute this rise is domestic violence? I use the term "domestic" because that's what the thread is about, but you are right about shacking up. I have my own ideas of why the violence has escalated, but what you guys think?

I have to say I agree with OopsMartin here: we're not necessarily seeing a rise in domestic violence--or at least not as dramatic a rise as we think--but that we're hearing about it more as the subject gradually becomes less taboo.

[OopsMartin]

Good question.

The short answer is I don't really know.

But that has never stopped me from speculating. I don't know if it really has gone up, I think oops said earlier that we are much more aware of it today and see it as a crime. At one time I think beating your wife was scene a family issue, something that was bad of course, but not something that society should care about or even want to really know about.

But if the actual numbers are higher I think it might have to do with an acceptance of violence as a means of solving issues in our culture combined with what I would call our raunchy culture. You can't show boys images of porn like women submitting to the every needs and desires of men as a normal relationship and expect that not to have an impact. Also men feel much less need and pressure to be good husbands and fathers today. Possibly it has to do with the increase in family breakdown. Ironically many of the abusers were raised by only their mothers with an absent father, one would think they would respect women but that seems to be the inverse case. But you can't go from a society where the vast majority of children were raised in two parent homes with one married mother and father, to a society with a minority of kids being raised in that nuclear home and not see the fruits of that now.

But like I said those are just my speculations.

thinking of numbers.... I cannot remember how many unhappy marriages I've become aware of over the last 38 years as a Christian, but immediately I can think of four Christian marriages (and probably more if I sat down and wrote them out) in which both physical, emotional and mental abuse was happening. One of them... OK that's five.... the husband beat his wife so badly so much that she ended up having rods put in her back and lived with continual pain. Another man, a pastor no less, would throw his wife around and choke her in anger. Another man drove his entire family away from God... son ended up homosexual, one daughter into pornography, the other afraid of men, wife became an alchoholic. The wife and one daughter have since (since they divorced) come back to the Lord. I watched that family for over 25 years, unable to talk any sense into the husband, unable to reach the wife (which is often near impossible in cases of abuse). The husband, whom I rarely see now, has become strange, and less intent on claiming himself a Christian.

In all of the cases that I can remember, one of the characteristics that tied them all together was the idea that the husband ruled his family, and that he was the final decision maker. Also, that women were primarily sensual beings which is why they should be only or primarily involved with household and children. I'm pretty sure that all of them also believed that women were emotionally inclined and men were logically inclined which was why men should decide important issues and the direction of the family.

Talking about reporting cases, only one that I knew of ever reported the abuse (and that only once in spite of multiple attacks). Most felt that reporting the abuse would only insure that they would get double portions when the husband came back home.

And thinking of reporting rapes..... most rapes are never reported. And they are not even talked about for many years later. Most sexual attacks on children are not reported because the children don't know how to talk about them until years later.

IMO these things happen because of an overall lack of respect for fellow human beings. If children were looked at as miniature adults, very human, intelligent and insightful, maybe just perhaps we could take back the numbers. Also, if women were truly viewed as just very human just somewhat different, with the same intelligence, insightfulness of men and no more or less sensual than men, we might be able to take back some of the numbers of abuses toward women.

And a great deal of the problems TODAY are because of how women are portrayed in mags, movies, advertising, etc. It infuses the minds of both men and women. But remember that all this was happening even before printing and movies. they are the result of the inward sin of humanity.

P.S. I hope I didn't upset anyone with too much of the particulars.

[Massorite]

I was wondering...just what ARE a persons Christian options when it comes to being married to a person that physically abuses them? Is divorce out of the question from a Biblical point of view?

The advise I usually give to someone who is in an abusive relationship/marrage is this. Get out of the relationship as fast as you can because God never intended for us to live that way and the abuser is commiting sin. But don't get a divorce because that is also a sin unless it is for the reasons spicified by the bible. However if you wait long enough the abuser will devorce you and you will be right both in eyes of the Law and of God. I am sure that some will disagree with this but what the hay. What does the bible say?