Pentecostals and Charismatics Examined

[Blood Stained Soul]

of course they do....I am operate in them! For that proof you would have to be involved with my life and/or Ministry. You really should really check out the rules before you continue in your postings. Again your telling others whats wrong with their beliefs, or critiquing their beliefs but refuse to acknowledhe your own and keep wanting to isolate people in pm, now I hate to sound like a conspiricy theorist here but something is wrong with this picture. You could ease some of that by tellig us more about your own system of beliefs, unless your afraid you might get the same treatment for yours as you have been dishing out?

[Nebuchadnezza10]

Hey Blood stained soul. My answer is in The baptism Thread.

Any questions for the spiritual gifts?

[nebula]

Spiritual gifts, as far as the miraculous ones, i.e. tongues, healing, prophesy and so on

[Blood Stained Soul]

not around? huh...i guess when i lay hands on people that are sick and they get healed....thts just some day dream? NOT...I guess when the Lord gives me a word of prophecy to speak over someones life....thats just whatever?...NOT.....the gifts and the five fold were given for the perfecting of the saints...are WE PERFECT....nope!

All I see is one who wants to bring confusion and division...and endoctrinate with COC doctrine...

[wordsower]

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe's household, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas," or "I am of Christ." 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Sounds like this debate has been going on for 2000+ years!

Music in the house?

2 Chr. 5:13indeed it came to pass, when the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord, and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised the Lord, saying: "For He is good, For His mercy endures forever," that the house, the house of the Lord, was filled with a cloud,

2 Chr. 29:25And he stationed the Levites in the house of the Lord with cymbals, with stringed instruments, and with harps, according to the commandment of David, of Gad the king's seer, and of Nathan the prophet; for thus was the commandment of the Lord by his prophets.

Neb,

1. Denomination means nothing.

2. The theif on the cross was not baptized.

3. Music blesses God

4. Your avatar scares me.

[Guest Bride of Christ]

First this dude wants to talk about baptism and how we're all wrong and he's right. Now it's the Spiritual Gifts.

They are in operation today. I have prayed and seen people healed. I have been prayed for and been healed. I have, under the Holy Spirit, prophecied. I speak in tongues.

Not my imagination. It's real.

[GymRose]

I am actually wondering if Nebuc 10 is someone who studies at home but does not go to a church and is looking for a reason to justify not going to church.

I am actually wondering how much of what this person is saying is simply head knowledge and not heart knowledge. Nebuc 10 is very educated in scripture I give them that but the fact so many have asked which church this person goes to and they wont answer the simple question makes me wonder.

I am the first to admit I am not perfect and I am not as well educated Biblically but I do know without a doubt I am saved with or without baptism and I also know that God does move miraculously today just as in the begining, I have felt his tangable pressence, I speak in tounges and have moved in the word of knowledge by Gods leading.

I really feel sad for you that all you can do is quote scripture and demand scripture be quoted back in return. Yes scripture is so important, it is Gods handbook for life and without it we would be lost but relationship with Him is so important too. Through that relationship I have had miraculous events in my life that would not have happened without a relationship with him.

Tell me when I am in the grips of despare and about to take my life with a handful of medication and say God if you can hear me and see my pain and you really are for me stop me now............... and two christian friends of mine ring the doorbell at the moment those words left my mouth....................... Can you honestly say God doesn't perform miricles today.

Was I right in challenging God in that way??? NO....... But do you think at that moment I would've taken the time to pick up my Bible and if I did do you really think the words in it would've mattered and if they would've don't you think that would have been the Holy Spirit moving.............. and isn' that God moving in a miraculous way.

Then there was a car accident I shoul have been killed in head on driver to drive at my car 60km/hour the other 70-80km/hour. I should be dead but there was a space where I was that was not crumpled and should have been destroyed. 1 week after the accident I had a dream in which I saw an angel surround my frind in the passanger seat, my 2yo son in the back and myself. When I next went to look at the car you could see like a cocoon where I was. Was that dream correct............... I don't know ............... but I do know from the police officers reactions to the condition of the car I should've been dead from the impact and someone or something took that impact that no one can explain. That is a miricle even the non believeing police said wow some one was watching over you.

The police also explained how you can tell alot by the music people listen to and the stickers on their cars. I had a Jesus sticker on my car. They told me in the majority of cases the people who come out worse are those with heavy metal music playing or unedifying music ( please don't anybody get offended here, I was a headbanger once LOL ) They told me people with christian music and stickers some how come out so much better off than others.

How can that not be miraculous, and that speaks to people. I believe for these reasons He does move in this way.

I only hope He reaches Nebuc 10 in a miraculous way so that they can see Him the way I and others here do.

[eric]

Gym Rose;

[Adstar]

I suppose i will give my 2 cents worth to this baptism discussion

People hear the word "baptism" and immediately they add the word "water" in their minds. "Baptism" in today's world has become synonymous with "water baptism". And in Jewish society people would think the same thing, since water baptism originated as a Jewish custom. However, John the Baptist knew that Jesus was coming to bring a different understanding of baptism, just as he was going to do with so many of the old traditions and laws. Jesus' baptism was going to maintain the spirit of the old baptism, but without the religious ritual.

This is what John the Baptist said of Jesus:

"There comes one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. I indeed have baptized you with water; but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost" (Mark 1:7-8, also in Matthew 3 and Luke 3).

Here is the man who was most famous for baptizing people with water, saying that Jesus' baptism would be a different baptism. And we know that Jesus did NOT baptize with water himself (see John 4:2). So Jesus lived up to what John the Baptist had said of him, in that Jesus' baptism was a spiritual one, and not a physical one.

So I think what you need to do is go back over the baptism verses, and in your mind, instead of adding "with water" add "with the Holy Spirit" and then you will begin to understand baptism more in the way that i do.

Here's an example.

"Go therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them [with the Holy Spirit] in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19-20).

Does that make better sense? It's interesting in this verse that the command to baptize [with the Holy Spirit] is sandwiched between the command to teach and the instruction of what to teach. The churchy understanding of baptism (with water) makes this sentence sound rather awkard, like he's putting in a completely new command (and a religious ritual at that) before he's completed the command about teaching and what to teach. Certainly water baptism does not feature heavily (if at all) anywhere else in what Jesus taught. But when you understand that the baptism Jesus was referring to was a baptism of the Holy Spirit, then the sentence makes much more sense... especially when you understand, as we do, that the teachings of Jesus ARE God's Spirit:

see John 6:63

63It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

[Guest yod]

Here's an example.

"Go therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them [with the Holy Spirit] in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19-20).

Does that make better sense?

thanks for trying.

I've said that a few times already and it was like beating my head against a rock.

:oww: ouch!